Why is finding plugins so hard?

I am a relatively new user to Bukkit, and I find the search area for plugins to be well... appaling. There is no way to sort by anything, or filter by anything. Basically if I don't specifically know the name of a specific plugin I am trying to find I may as well not even look around for new stuff. Am I missing something?

 

Can you give an example of what you're trying?

 

I'm going to assume you've noticed the (to be fair, slightly hidden and collapsed by default) filter button:
http://dev.bukkit.org/server-mods/?search=test

Other than that, I'll agree that it's not an ideal way to find things. Plugins are sorted by last updated with no option to change to most downloads/etc., and there is no rating system to determine the value of a plugin.

I think the idea is that it gives all plugins an equal chance, but in practice it just dilutes search results with a bunch of plugins you don't want.

 

A rating system only determines the popularity of a plugin, not the value. However, that said:
http://www.curse.com/server-mods/minecraft

I am hoping to expand the functionality of http://plugins.bukkit.org/curseforge, but that may take a bit of time.

 

thats an interesting link and useful. Why dont we have that beside the "get Plugins" tab?

 

I wish I could give a really specific example but since I was just browsing I don't really have one. I will walk you through what I did yesterday though. I was browsing popular LPs and the official forums and decided I wanted to find some plugins for bukkit that were similar to NEI, EE, and some other things. Now while I understand that those particular mods are very var reaching and there aren't exact ports of them, I didn't even know how to start filtering them (no I didn't see the filter button). I'm not sure I could tell you specifically which sorting/filtering would help the most but as a new sever that doesn't quite know what we want yet the get plugins link is just overwhelming. At a minimum a filter for which version of craftbukkit is supported would be nice.

 

Its the same plugins. Just a more "consumer" friendly environment, vs dev.bukkit.org which is more developer friendly. Since Bukkit is primarily a development community, we made the choice to link there instead.

The Curse site does bring some neat features consumers of plugins like, such as "liking" the plugin for those that want to know their plugin popularity.

That's not an accurate measurement. While we encourage plugin developers to update the version their plugin works with on dev.bukkit.org, a great many plugins can work between updates without issues.

 

Oh i understand that, I was just wondering why you guys dont give easier access to features like that through bukkit.org or dev.bukkit.org itself for newer users.

 

Mostly because Curse already offers that on their site.

 

Alright, sounds fair i guess. But if i were to suggest JUST A SUGGESTION is that you guys put tabs which link to those features which cruse offers on their website. So basically your just linking people to their website.

 

I don't agree with that statement. The popularity of a plugin IS it's value to the community, and a large indicator of it's overall practical use as a plugin. If it's popular, it's because it's valued. Being more popular also tends to mean it is inherently put through more rigorous in-the-wild testing.

Sure, a new plugin might rank lower initially, but at least under a rating system if the new plugin receives all high ratings it receives nice boost up next to the existing de facto standard.

It defeats the numbers game to an extent, because you can still see the overall rating whether 10, 100, or 1,000 people have rated something. Also, if you're looking for flaws you can filter into the 1-2 star ratings and (presuming they allow a review) see what it is people who don't like it have against it.

It gives users a feedback mechanism to tell devs what they liked and didn't like, AND helps future users determine if a product is what they want.

I get that Bukkit disagrees, but the reasons seem more dogmatic than logical to me.

 

No ratings are a bad idea. It already happens now as Developers argue over which plugin is better. Note the Essentials vs CommandBook debate thread. Ego comes into play and something will get ranked really low that might be a great plugin. People would get stuck on a few plugins without seeing any other.

 

Ne0nx3r0
I disagree with pretty much your entire post.

Popularity just means it has wide exposure. Means nothing for the quality of the plugin, nor the use of it. I know a great many plugins that are fantastic, but not very widely exposed, and thus would not have a high rating. Yet those very plugins are far better than the popular versions of them, hence why I disagree. You also get the cases where someone would rate a plugin low because they cannot figure out its complex nature.

In any event, you have the Curse site if that is what you are after. It allows you to like the plugin, and mark it as a favorite. That should give you a great indication of popularity.

 

No, actually they would get a high rating, in fact that's the point. If ten people downloaded a plugin, and they all rated it five stars, that would be the same rating as if 10,000 people all downloaded it and all rated it 5 stars. The underdog actually gets a boost from not having a mess of unsatisfied customers for the wrong reasons, and it helps put a check on the numbers game.

Exactly! I feel like a broken record here, you're using raw boolean numbers versus actual ratings.

If a majority of users can't figure out a plugin, than likely that plugin is not for a majority of users. In any case, that scenario can (and has been on Amazon for example) remedied by allowing feedback on reviews, and then using the highest rated negative and positive reviews as examples to show users.

This isn't some hair brained idea, it's a proven concept.

*moves the needle back to track 1* That's the point of using a 5-star system versus a like-or-not system. With the current implementation, you only see what people said yes, but not which people said no to a product. It's purely the number of people who voted, not counting all the unsatisfied people. So ironically you are seeing just the result you are trying to avoid.

People ARE stuck on a few plugins without seeing any other. Because they look at the list, get confused and just go with whatever has the most downloads.

If plugins are competing, then that's good for users. I think this irrational fear of a popularity contest is crushing any possible innovation in the plugin marketplace's implementation. We're so afraid of setting up a system that fails, that we've setup the most prosaic and only fundamentally even usable system we're capable of.

 

Ne0nx3r0
People are only stuck if they feel they are stuck. There is an equal footing for every single plugin out there, and they list the same on the site. No one is stuck unless they choose to be stuck.

Feel free to recommend your ideas to Curse for inclusion on their site, as that is more consumer oriented than dev.bukkit.org, as explained above.

 

At a basic level the search box on dev.bukkit needs to limit the scope to projects only to avoid junk in the results. Currently it is possible to put a name of a plugin in that box and not get the project page (what people are most likely to want) anywhere near the top of the list.

 

grandwazir If you search via: http://plugins.bukkit.org/curseforge
Then it only shows plugin results as desired

 

That is useful to know, but why doesn't the standard search do this by default?

 

On DBO you can also filter the search so it shows "projects only". Under "scope" set it to "projects only".

 

Yes, I know you can do that but I wonder why it does not do this by default, since plugins are what people want usually not random forum posts.

 

BukkitDev hosts more than just plugins, it hosts client mods and texture packs as well, as well as project forums, bug trackers, among others. We prefer not to assume we know best what you are searching.

 

Its like to me that bukkit dev isnt as good as curse want people to use their own search client instead of bukkit devs ;(

 

NEI and EE.... What about the Condencer Plugin