When does the old staff come back?

Discussion in 'Bukkit Discussion' started by ͏͏Drake, Sep 21, 2014.

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    When does the old staff come back?
    I miss them, they actually worked.

    By worked, I mean do something other than moderate the forums.
  2. ͏͏Drake They resigned, they didn't go on holiday.
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    Mojang screwed us over.
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    Somebody give him cookies before he cries. :(
    bluekelp likes this.
  5. Here have a cookie.
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    Really, Mojang didn't file a DCMA now did they.. Point that anger at the proper Bukkit-ruining person.
  7. *cough* Wolverness
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    The DMCA was just a response to Mojang claiming ownership over Bukkit. Imagine working on a product for years when suddenly a company says "Okay thanks, that's ours now!". He didn't take that, and he shouldn't.

    As for us coming back; nope. This project has had its time and has been declared dead. It's funny really, when Seph declared it dead and Mojang was like "Nope it's not until we say so", after which all staff just left and it... died. Almost ironic, really.
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    However, Mojang has owned it for 2 years apparently. So Wolverness is just acting like a child. There was never any compensation from Mojang for Bukkit, and there was never going to be. He's immature, and that shows in what he did. Mojang wasn't stopping Bukkit from being developed simply because they made it public that they owned Bukkit. They even were going to help. So no... I won't support Wolverness like your signature says. He does not deserve it.

    Only 2 staff left (at least officially) when Mojang said that. The rest of the staff left, when Wolverness acted like a child and issued the copyright complaint.
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    ERROR372 I can't say you're wrong, but I disagree. Mojang lying about the purchase of Bukkit is just wrong. Period. Now, just at least try to put yourself in Wolvereness' shoes. You've poured your heart and soul into this project, given all of your spare time that you've ever had for the past few years--with NOTHING in return, I might add--and then suddenly Mojang says to you, "Hey, we kinda lied about our hiring of the core developers. We actually purchased all of Bukkit. So all your work should have been paid for, since it's now a professionally-owned project, but you already gave your time, so we're not going to give you anything." That would really tick me off.

    Mojang had every right and reason to buy Bukkit; when I was new to Bukkit I had no clue that it was (supposed to be, since I joined only last year when Mojang had already purchased Bukkit) a non-profit, non-Mojang-owned organization. It would only make sense that the largest Minecraft server mod in the world is owned by the creators of Minecraft itself. But to hide it for so long, then suddenly reveal it at the worst possible time, that is just crossing the line.
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    I don't agree with or support Mojang's actions in any of this, and I thank the retired Bukkit staff for their immense amount of time and dedication to the project. However, I disagree with with Wolvereness' actions responding to Mojang saying they own Bukkit. The entire community depended and still does depend on the talent and hard work of the former Bukkit team. Taking that away from thousands of server owners, and players is just a bit childish in my opinion. I understand where both Wolvereness and Mojang are coming from, yet neither one I completely agree with. Just my two cents.
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    ERROR372 So protecting your copyright is now considered acting like a child? Nice.
    You know what's acting like a child? Swatting him.
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    Lolmewn I feel there's a huge difference between protecting a copyright that you are making money off of, or that the person using your stuff is getting money off of the product, and one that's intended to be free-ware (which Bukkit is/was). However, none of those happened in this case. So yes, he's acting like a child.

    And when did I advocate the swatting of him? Yes, that's childish and stupid, and those who do that should be charged.

    Seriously, tell me... what does Wolvereness gain out of doing that? I'll answer that for you... *NOTHING*
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    ERROR372 He wasn't getting money off of it, what makes you think so? It was completely free work.

    What Wolverness gains here is that Mojang isn't making tons of money off of work he has done. I'm sure there's people who actually know stuff about licences that can tell you more about this.
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    Mojang is partaily violating licenses it self, GPL3 clearly states that you may want to redistrubute the software as an:
    - copy
    - modification

    within the notes that you should respect the owner/creators rights, this means the way how mojang was talking in the tweets is already violating it.

    but should not be threated as a product/sell:
    - so you are not allowed to sell it
    - not threating it as a product

    mojang didn't state it as a product or wanted to sell, yet again this is a company which tries to grab their hands into the open source and tries to make it profit, here it is where it becomes more triggery.

    since they don't state its a product here they stand legal, but by implying ownership is violating the license and the contributors.

    but again it does not mean cb is violating rights to.
    and that may is the obfusucated source, however I may could be wrong because maybe the obfusucater they use override their licenses ;-), don't forget that most third party programs needs to be shipped with their licenses to.
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    Know what?! I've rage quit on my stance with all of Bukkit and Mojang and Wolverness and whatever!

    Read this for the real info: http://forums.bukkit.org/threads/mojang-and-the-bukkit-project.309715/

    Long-after-post-edit: Forget what I said here. I'm just being tossed around with what information I receive, still working out what's truth and rumor.
  17. pookeythekid You say that as if that post isn't flawed.
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    AdamQpzm I say that because it both makes sense and it's a more reliable source than some unofficial random person from the community. Whether it be biased or not, it's straight from the mouth of one of the two parties who are taking part of this entire conflict--Mojang and Wolvereness.

    Edit: I haven't seen a direct post from Wolvereness about this whole thing, though. If you'd like to prove me wrong, find me a source.
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    Wolvereness Bukkit Team Member

    I'd implore all third parties to examine what was said, and compare it with the actions taken. Most people will agree that actions speak louder than words. As for me, I'd like to point out what I said on reddit about speaking out.
    When I'm able to make a response that helps someone else, and doesn't just promote my own position, I'd love to do so.
    There are times in life that we end up doing things that may not lead to any benefit to ourselves, but I will not claim such a noble interpretation for this. I did, and still do, feel that what I did (enforcing my copyright) needed to be done. The alternatives were unacceptable and damaging; I do not have, and have never had, any intention to voluntarily relinquish my copyright into public domain or to any other entity.

    PS. I'm still sorry that I'm not able to speak out further and provide new information.
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    It's surprising seeing you come on here and say these things. Hopefully, you look at the positive comments supporting you rather than the negative.
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    spoiler alert: they don't
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  22. pookeythekid An official response and a reliable response are different things. Let's say I set up a company right now called Craftmine, which was a complete duplicate of Minecraft. If Mojang shut me down, and I made an official response claiming that Craftmine actually came out first and has absolutely nothing in common with Minecraft anyway, should anybody see that post as 'reliable'? No, of course they shouldn't. It should be dismissed as ridiculous.

    Your statement is interestingly contradictory. You claim it's reliable and you also imply that it's biased - do we not consider biased sources as 'unreliable'?
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    Wolvereness I do support your reasoning in protecting your copyright. I get it, you did what what was logical and needed to be done. I don't disrespect you for that. I'm just another one of those guys who's pretty bummed to see Bukkit finally go. Farewell, Bukkit.

    AdamQpzm Yeah, you're pretty right about that. I horribly chose my words in those few posts. Here's what I meant: I didn't want to choose any sides before I was able to get information straight from both sources, then make my own decisions on who's right or wrong--or if they both have equally good reasons to defend their cases. The reason I mostly didn't mind that it was straight from one side was because it was any information at all, and until now I haven't seen anything (actually) reliable that discusses Wolvereness's case.
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    There is a link on here from two years ago that people have been passing around, in which clearly states the deal that was made between Mojang and the bukkit dev team (well, some of them, anyway). Like most/many of you, I too was shocked when I "found out" that Mojang "owned" this project, and even more shocked that it was actually on here, again, two years ago when the deal was made. That being said, it clearly was public knowledge, and no one was lying about the purchase. Also worth mention, it apparently didn't come up that much after the post was made, with the exception of the comments on that particular thread. But, in fairness, it was out there, it WAS public knowledge, and it's posted in these forums. I wasn't around back then, but I can imagine many a member here and user of bukkit thinking how cool/confusing the times may be down the road, certainly not expecting a turn like what we all face now.. Also makes me wonder what the dev team was hired for.. Don't really see any mention of that. Are they responsible for the upcoming "Official API"? As we watch our project fade into darkness it bodes curiosity of what was so worthy to Mojang to recruit the bukkit team... If not using the Bukkit API... Surely they didn't get hired to add rabbits into the game.
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    Exit151 ... Oh. Well thanks for filling me in on that. *mentally erases misunderstanding of Mojang's publicity of the purchase*

    You have a point with the dev team. A reasonable question to ask is "If Mojang bought Bukkit, why didn't they do anything with it?" My personal understanding of it is that Mojang probably bought Bukkit for three reasons. 1: I'm still not totally aware of if it was legal or not, but CraftBukkit uses Minecraft server code, so Mojang may have wanted to reclaim what was technically already theirs. 2: Mojang didn't interfere with the development of Bukkit because they wanted to preserve the great community-run heart of Bukkit. If this is the case, I suppose I'm glad they did so. 3: Mojang may have wanted to be able to take the reins of Bukkit and put it back on track in times of crisis such as now--except this crisis is something that I doubt Mojang can correct.

    So yeah, just my theories. Feel free to correct me, I actually kind of enjoy learning more about what I didn't know about Bukkit.

    Edit: Just a side note, I think it would be great if a Microsoft representative came to this site and made clear what the heck they're going to do about all this. I personally think that Microsoft bought a dying product, and I want to see if they can prove me wrong. Unless someone conveniently has a link to a blog post or whatnot that I can read?
  26. Exit151 I have yet to see a link from 2 years ago that stating that Mojang now own Bukkit. Believe me, a development team joining a company and a company acquiring a project are very different things. I myself have been through a similar experience on a much smaller scale.
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    AdamQpzm I always figured that Mojang both hired the core dev team and bought the Bukkit project.
  28. pookeythekid But they are different things - whether or not you "figured" that, it was your own opinion and wasn't actually backed up by an article. I also wonder how many of these people that were under the opinion that Mojang owned Bukkit would have had that opinion if asked "do Mojang own Bukkit?" before the announcement was made. But oh well, no way to prove that now. :)
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    I know this post is almost a week old, but reading this bothered me enough that I felt like I had to say something. I don't presume to speak for other staff members, but my leaving had absolutely nothing to do with the copyright issue even though I was one of the last staff members to resign. The Bukkit project was on its way out, Mojang claimed they would pick up the pieces and keep it going, and I waited to see what Mojang would actually do. I didn't see any evidence that they were actually doing anything, and there was no communication between them and what was left of the Bukkit staff. That felt wrong to me and so I chose to do what so many of the others had already done. I left.

    Please don't be so quick to determine the reasons for other people's actions based solely on timing; there are oftentimes more factors at work than what is easily observable by the general populace.
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    So you single me out, when your fellow retired staff said:

    He made as many presumptions as I did, but it's okay... only complain about what non-retired staff say...

    All I said was that only 2 staff had left when Mojang declared they were keeping it alive, and the rest left after Wolvereness issued the DMCA takedown. I never said that's why they left, just stated a fact (because it is true that 2 left after Seph's statement, and the rest after Wolvereness' takedown)
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