Mojang and the Bukkit Project

Discussion in 'Community News and Announcements' started by vubui, Sep 5, 2014.

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    What you say above would certainly be true if all the contributors to the Bukkit/CraftBukkit source code had signed over their copyrights (or whatever is the appropriate terminology for the system that Apache and many other open source software projects use). But that isn't the case here. So while Mojang certainly acquired the rights to something, they don't seem to have gone to each contributor and gotten the rights to the code those contributors submitted. My understanding is that the Bukkit team would need to get permission from all contributors before they could change the license. Or remove the code of those contributors who don't agree with the change.

    What do you think?
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    So, once again, 14 years later, the DMCA still allows an individual to bully someone.

    The DMCA is a horribly bad law.


    And I'm not very happy with Wesley Wolfe right now. Actually, I'm not entirely happy with Mojang either, but I'm mostly not happy with Wesley Wolfe.

    I'm sure he believes he had good, important reasons for killing Bukkit. But it mostly just seems like he's annoyed/angry/upset about Mojang modifying and now enforcing the new-modified EULA.

    So he's trying to strike back at Mojang where they appear weak in their copyright stance.

    Well, so what, Wesley Wolfe? What long term good do you think will come of this? A legal battle? A test of the (L)GPL in court where it possibly loses? Do you really want Mojang to be spending their money fighting you?

    This is a Lose-Lose scenario. There is absolutely no way this is going to result in the Minecraft code being GPLed and somehow the whole community, except for Mojang, wins.

    IANAL, but IMHO, if Wesley Wolfe has not already retained the services of a lawyer, he should probably go ahead and think about doing that now-ish.


    And all I really wanted was the GreiefPrevention mod... well ok WorldEdit is pretty cool too... although I could get by with a client-only version of that if I had to.


    P.S. re "Grief Prevention": that's what Wesley Wolfe did-- he just gave the entire Bukkit community a whole pale-ful of GRIEF.

    I humbly suggest Wesley Wolfe be named the Ultimate Greifer.

    Furry cows moo and decompress.
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    Reams is not competing with Bukkit/Spigot, it is competing with server hosting companies. If Bukkit/Spigot were to vanish, Realms would still compete with companies hosting vanilla Minecraft servers.
    Mojang has not been sabotaging Bukkit, Spigot, Cauldron, or Forge.
    Purchasable expansions via Realms, meet the modding API. These two are completely incompatible, and only one of them is being worked on.
    You are getting mad at a theoretical situation.
    Did you really type that?
    There are many brilliant plugin/mod developers. There are probably enough game developers in the mix to pull off such a project, but larger teams do not imply better products. Really successful teams are made of people that work well together, not just a bunch of super-devs.
    I really wouldn't want the task of merging the hundreds of branches this would create.
    I sincerely hope that you don't get emails/messages from everyone in the community. Dealing with that many people is what nightmares are made of.
    One Bukkit dev wanted to shut down the project, and Mojang tried to save it. Then another did not want Mojang owning/using his code, and DMCA'd the project. This does not show that Mojang is trying to kill Bukkit.
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    Um...I covered this...Did you not read the part of my post you quoted correctly?
    To expand on this the the project owner (as far as I know this was Dinnerbone as he made the very first commit) can sell the project without issue BUT the GPL code not written by the project owner cannot be sold and must retain it's original license. Hence why I said what I said and how I said it in my quote. A GPL project can change owners however but the code therein must remain true to the GPL license which the Mojang owned Bukkit is doing.

    Please stop spreading a falsehood. Bukkit is a derivative of Minecraft. Mojang did NOT put the Minecraft server code there. Bukkit contributors did so. Yes, Mojang now owns Bukkit and some of said contributors are now Mojang employees but at the time the code contributions were made they were not. The only legal standing I see anyone has here is Mojang has the right to sue the contributors that put the minecraft code into Bukkit the first place and exterminate Bukkit (and any forked versions) from existence! Which is exactly what any other company would have done. A derivative work can not force an upstream project to be relicensed unless the upstream project later incorporates code from the downstream project. Which Mojang has said over and over they will not be merging Bukkit in any way into the official Minecraft codebase.

    I can understand people being pissed off about the Bukkit purchase not being made public when it happened (I'm one of said persons) and only being discovered when EvilSeph attempted to shut down Bukkit. Which like I said before he couldn't do any ways. Even if Mojang didn't own Bukkit all that would have happened is Bukkit getting forked in to [insert number] of projects and living on under other names. Hell, it can still go that route even now. All that has really come to light is that Bukkit is an "[un]officially" sanctioned project that Mojang owns. That doesn't mean Mojang must now release Minecraft as open-source. All this uproar is going to cause is Mojang to get fed up, put it's foot down and kill off bukkit, forge and every other Minecraft mod for copyright violations.

    Another thing. First let me say I'm not a lawyer but Wolfe's DMCA violates the GPL because he is attempting to say what I, you, Mojang and everyone else can do with his GPL code. This is a violation of section 10 of the GPLv3 that Bukkit is licensed under.
    The most he can do (assuming he has any real legal standing [leave that to lawyers, people]) is attempt to force Mojang to release Minecraft's source which will only cause Mojang to put its foot down and kill off bukkit, forge and every other Minecraft mod like I said above.
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    Wait. If you are correct, then that would invalidate other parts of the GPL. The GPL is designed so that you can't release a software product/project with only part of the software code. It's basically an all or nothing thing. (Note: I'm not referring to LGPL here.) If section 10 is saying that you can release a software product without providing source for the entire project because otherwise you're restricting the rights of the person (who receives the software) then that's a loophole one could drive a truck through. So, did I misunderstand you?

    [And, yes, it's up to the lawyers. However, I prefer to understand as much as I can about software licenses as possible.]

    Edit: well it may be up to the courts more than to the lawyers.
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    Vubui, thank you. You are absolutely correct in that the time of listening to this and that person has passed. It is time to hear directly from Mojang. Firstly, thank you vubui for making a statement. We have all waited with bated breath to hear something official directly from Mojang.

    There has been too much misinformation, too many statements that cannot be verified, too many posts from ppl who aren't officially representing Mojang. The Minecraft community is scared and confused.

    I own a CB server. Over the last year and a half that I have been running this server we have formed a type of family. I have designed the server to be a friendly environment full of helpful ppl. My players were fearing the future of CB. I feared the future of my server, or whether it is going to be allowed to have a future.

    That changed when I saw your post. If I may quote you, “The official Minecraft Server software that we have made available is not included in CraftBukkit.” And there it is, Craftbukkit is free.

    I no longer fear for my server.

    Unfortunately, I believe most of the Minecraft community is still confused and there is much misunderstanding. Therefore, I'd like to address the readers.


    Vubui is speaking in legal tough. This is necessary when making statements representing company policies. Please allow me to clarify a few things with some Q&A.

    Q. What is the status of Craftbukkit? Is it pirated software now?

    A. “The official Minecraft Server software that we have made available is not included in CraftBukkit.”
    Craftbukkit is free. Free to mod, free to distribute, and must be freely shared (No one is allowed to charge for it).

    Q. Is this a hostile takeover by heartless, ungrateful sharks out to fill their overpriced Realms by killing all modded servers?

    A. No, now take off the tin foil hat.
    Mojang has made it clear for some time that they will eventually add plugins to their vanilla. In fact, given enough time there will be no more need for Craftbukkit, although that time is still far away.

    Q. What's this about Mojang being given rights to CB two years ago? Is this their right to steal bukkit.

    A. No. This is their right to only intervene if, say perhaps some rough unit decided to sabotage bukkit by, lets just say, misrepresenting the patent. This allows Mojang to protect the Craftbukkit project so that it can continue freely and independently.

    Q. If the last answer is true, then what's up with

    A. Something that is about to be reversed. In a manner of speaking, you could say it was hacked.

    Q. What is the future of Craftbukkit?

    A. This is not Mojang's call. This is, as it always has been, up to the Minecraft community. This project started with three ppl. It grew, but not enough. A precious few worked tirelessly into the late hours of the night while their donate button grew dusty. They have stated that they enjoyed contributing, however several of them are kinda tired.

    Q. What's next?

    A. Minecrafters Unite! Seriously, the CB team has always needed more help. It is time for us to code. Much more contributions are needed to the CB project. This has been so for some time. Now, with recent unfortunate events, it is more important than ever that we stand up and take the wheel. It is time to rebuild the CB team. Dinnerbone is waiting for us.

    Q. Will my Craftbukkit server be online one year from now?

    A. If you are still willing to edit YAML files, yes. You will be running version 1.8.9 with includes the bunny jockey and Herobrine is removed.

    I do hope this clarifies some of vubui's statements. If any of you wish to continue hating Mojang, or believe your CB server will be forced offline, put down the joint, move out of Mom's house and get a job.
    HammerHedd likes this.
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    YOUR RIGHT they can buy the world's best lawyers,
    Mojang made a total of over: 400,000,000$ SELLING MINECRAFT ONLY! (for pc NOT INCLUDING CONSOL)!!

    my math: Over 16,000,000 Minecraft sold and the price is 25$ per one I DID 16,000,000 X 25 = 400,000,000
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    And you're saying they didn't spend one bit of it on coders, resources, advertising etc. Plus Minecraft Alpha costed $13 and beta about $17.
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    Well i must admit, i did NOT expect bukkit to die this way

  11. Oh, so Bukkit did not contain Minecraft derived code during the two year period it was owned by Mojang? It did not release binaries with Minecraft derived code while owned by Mojang?

    There's nothing false about that statement.

    You're right, they could have shut it down. But they didn't. They bought it, and permitted that wing of their company to release GPL licensed Minecraft derived code. Bukkit is not a company. It is not an organization, a group, or an idea. Bukkit is a product owned by Mojang, an international corporation with more than half a billion in sales in the last 2 years. Mojang released versions of Bukkit with the code derived from Minecraft, versions licensed under the GPL. It does not matter who contributed it. What matters is that Mojang, the owner of the copyright to Minecraft, released these versions with that code, effectually legitimizing it.

    This is factually incorrect. The GPL grants you nothing unless you agree to and honor the whole of it. Mojang, by stating that they do not license the Minecraft derived code under the GPL with the rest of the project, are not in compliance with the GPL. Because of this, they have no permission to distribute his code, nor code or binaries based upon it. They are infringing his copyright. They are breaking the law.
    krisdestruction likes this.
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    I am not a lawyer but this is how I see things.

    Problem #1 This repository is a clear violation of the Mojang copyright.
    Problem #2 The source in that repository is used to build bukkit so bukkit is violating Mojang's copyright.
    Problem #3 Neither Dinnerbone nor grum made contributions to that repository after being acquired.
    Problem #4 This feels like Mojang is just trying to kill off competition. Something with even with their EULA isn't realistic. (Sure they're trying, but they're going to fail hard.)

    This means Mojang can pretty easily kill bukkit if they want.

    Unless Mojang incorporates bukkit's code into Minecraft itself then it doesn't matter what license bukkit is under. If I decompiled Windows and put the source on CodePlex Microsoft wouldn't be required to release their original source. If anything they'd sue me for doing it.

    If you want to get down to brass tacks the bukkit license itself is just flat out invalid because of the stolen code in it. Nobody can claim more than partial ownership of it. Mojang can't because people they didn't sign contracts with or get licenses from contributed to it, and even if everyone else who contributed to bukkit got together they couldn't because it's using stolen Mojang code.

    To me this looks like someone is dishonestly trying to force them to give up their bad idea, and they're fighting back equally dishonestly by trying to rile up the community against him.

    IANAL *giggles*
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    Yes, GPL is pretty much all or nothing. Bukkit itself doesn't not violate the GPL. CraftBukkit does because it is distributing the closed-sourced proprietary-licensed Minecraft server along side the open-source GPL-licensed Bukkit. CraftBukkit also violates Mojang's license on Minecraft because it is distributing the Minecraft server from a non-official source. Minecraft does NOT violate any license because inclusion of it's code is not authorized in any project for any reason. Mojang as a whole has tried to do right by the majority of the community which, I believe, is why they haven't never filed a DMCA against Bukkit, CraftBukkit or any other Minecraft mod because it would be a giant f** you to the community as a whole. Now we have Wesley Wolfe aka wolvereness who has given Mojang and the entire Minecraft community a giant F*** you because he feels slighted. This isn't even considering whether his DMCA claim is legitimate or not. Which, personally, I say it is invalid. Who owns Bukkit/CraftBukkit in the end is a moot point because anyone that bothered to read through the licenses would already know CraftBukkit's license is incompatible with both Bukkit's GPL and Minecraft's proprietary license just as Bukkit's GPL license is incompatible with Minecraft's proprietary license in the first place. He put the code there in the first place and now trying to claim ignorance on the licensing issue now is just silly. That is like getting pulled over drunk as could be then claim you didn't know it was illegal to drive drunk. What is the officer going to say? "Oh, in that case be careful on your way home and have a good night." Hell no, he's putting you in the backseat of his car with a quick trip to a holding cell.

    Sure I'm pissed off that Mojang didn't come forward about the Bukkit/CraftBukkit acquisition but the community as a whole is not affected by this as the last two years prove. However, wolverness' actions have me infuriated. I haven't wanted to physically punch anyone since I was in high school (every class seems to have that one kid that talks-n-talks much sh*t until someone snaps and decks him. Well, I snapped...eventually) nearly 15 years ago. Wolverness has single handedly spit in the face of everyone in the Minecraft community. Let's assume his DMCA claim is valid in it's entirety he has still spit in the face of everyone here. He could have just said, "Been fun but I don't agree with how things are and I'm out!" (as TnT more or less did) Instead he screwed us all with taking down CraftBukkit where before despite licensing conflict everyone as a whole got along and accepted/ignored the licensing conflicts as a necessary evil until the proper solution (Official Minecraft API) was ready.
    smbarbour likes this.
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    Still the only decent looking truth:
    Illuminati confirmed.
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    He is arguing that the GPL licence isn't valid anyways, If it is not valid, it cannot be violated.

    I hope bukkit makes it through this...

  16. Oh, I thought Mojang owned Bukkit. If they do, then they cannot be in violation of their own copyright. If they don't, well, that changes things a bit.
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    There are some really interesting possibilities due to the way Java works. If you packaged and distributed the org.bukkit (Bukkit repo), org.bukkit.craftbukkit (CraftBukkit repo) and net.minecraft.server (mc-dev repo) in separate jars, would that make a difference legally? And if so, does that not also follow that this would apply? If that section does not apply due to the "shared address space" argument, then it would also apply that GPL is completely unusable for any Java code.
    Relicum likes this.
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    Everything is false about that statement. Bukkit does not contain any Minecraft derived code. It is merely an api that can be implemented into any project. Glowstone is one such project that uses Bukkit and contains no Mojang code what so ever but tries to maintain compatibility with Mojang's Minecraft Clients. CraftBukkit contains Minecraft derived code and in many cases the de-obfuscated Mojang Minecraft source-code.
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    havent been on for 2 weeks and I just read up on what has happened so far. All i can say is ..... Wow......

    This is why u have to be active guys T^T. So u dont get a big supprise like i did
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    The arguing will just keep going round. We and I include myself in that are destroying the community side of the Bukkit project by sniping at each other. Like you I have every right to post my thoughts and feelings. And will continue to do so. Nothing I have posted is untrue and relevant in "my" eyes but it might not be in yours. That's that freedom of speech is all about. Resorting to sarcasm like you are is equally as degrading some might say.

    So whats your opinion of this then on the homepage of BukkitDev

    Again I will stick to my original opinion that Mojang have handled this disgracefully. This is not the only place you will find the above. So Mojang have owned the Bukkit Project, for over 2 years and have continued to advertise it as stated above. Any self respecting company would of removed it. this is what makes me angry combined with Mojang watching 1000's of people Knowingly break the law as they never gave permission for it to be licensed licensed under LGPL. BUT at the same time the 2 licenses illegally applied where added to the project by NOW mojang employees. So will mojang will take legal action against the persons responsible for the illegal application of the licenses which everything stems from ?? Off course not as some are Mojang employees. What a mess that's all I will say. (For now)

    Also to be clear my view is Mojang have every right to choose what they do with their IPR, they designed it, built it they don't owe "me" anything apart from the use of the minecraft game I paid for provided I agree to the EULA which I have no issue with. I don't expect a free lunch. But I do expect Mojang to remember they aren't above the law or allowed to give misleading statements when presented with a question from their customers.
    KevinABC96 and krisdestruction like this.
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    You missed group 4: the people who recognise that both Mojang and the Bukkit team have mishandled this whole affair quite spectacularly:
    • The Bukkit team's original decision to license CraftBukkit under the LGPL when it contains decompiled versions of proprietary code as well as GPL'd code (Bukkit) was a huge mistake.
    • Mojang perpetuated the problem by never issuing any kind of official statement, either before or after purchasing the Bukkit project, about the legality of CraftBukkit. It could be argued that they wilfully failed to protect their intellectual property in this respect, since they knew full well that decompiled Mojang code has been publicly available for over 3 years (under a license which isn't compatible with the Minecraft license) on GitHub, yet did nothing about it.
    • Mojang also failed to make it clear when they acquired the Bukkit project in 2012 that any subsequent contributions from individuals were in fact contributions to Mojang's own product, and not an independent community project. That's left a lot of people (most obviously Wolvereness) very unhappy.
    xbony2, jorisk322, slipcor and 4 others like this.
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    In a perfect world many of the people in this saga might have or certainly would have played their hand differently.

    We could waste a lot of time on that.

    What is best for the Bukkit project is surely to consider this:

    1) It was always intended that Bukkit remain independent.
    2) As Minecraft players we want the project to continue.
    3) We hope that the new Bukkit leadership is able to continue the project and work through the obvious copyright problems arising from the "availability" of certain code, the "reverse engineering" of certain code, and so on.
    4) A legal agreement in writing would safeguard Bukkit volunteers but this would take quite some time. With the right attitude the Bukkit team and Mojang can continue "informally" working together.

    I sincerely trust that all those involved continue to have this vague, ill defined "correct attitude" in order that Bukkit may continue to prosper.
    Credomane likes this.
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    desht A voice of reason! Unfortunately Wolvereness' actions have a far larger affect on the Minecraft Community than on Mojang.
    Tarae Good or bad it was this vague, ill defined "correct attitude" that more or less got us here but at the same time the Minecraft Community would not be the awesome place it is.
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    Hello everyone,

    Oh wow, I've taken a break from MineCraft (because the frequency with which updates are released is hilariously low) for a time and come back to see all this... it surely is interesting to read so much about this 'drama', but also discouraging...

    Besides all the disagreements about if the code is derived or not I know one thing for sure: without something like Bukkit, Minecraft will definitely lose a lot (if I had to make a guess I'd say about 60-75% based on my own loose assumptions - almost every server has been improved/modded through the use of Bukkit) of players. I've also seen that more and more players grew tired with Minecraft over the course of the last year (which could be attributed to the lack of updates ?), yep including me partially. My server (which is a small friends server) was still kept up-to-date as much as possible, yet the connections/active players got fewer and fewer.
    There'll be always things to build, but the feel of "been there - done that" is also pretty constant.

    I hope that (the tradition of) Bukkit continues in giving devs, server admins and players nice tools to work with and a lot more fun.

    Thank you for reading,
    the Squirrel
    raGan. and kdthehun like this.
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    Could someone explain what is going on with this copyright infringement thing!!?? (451 Unavailable for legal reasons) I don't understand the copy of the notification thing at all! WTF :mad::mad::mad:[dirt][dirt]
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    i wish minecraft was developed by a different company ... company which takes care about its community oh <3...
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    I think people should stop debating whos fault it is, that bukkit is in this dilemma.
    Any further post about that will still not help to continue the bukkit project.

    The bukkit community and the remaining bukkit staff should try to find solutions instead of a verbal mudslinging.
    Probably, everything normal people can do is waiting, however, all who are familiar with the bukkit code and the team that was working on it, should try to communicate with each other and mojang.
    I assume, that this is already partly happening, but not on this forum.

    Maybe, these words are only hot air but maybe it helps. xD
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    Such arrogance from the community (the majority that is), the rest, the sparkly members of our family make me proud to be of said family.

    Overall, it'd save the Bukkit community, staff and Mojang much more time to simply cut our losses, spend the next few weeks (or months more likely), to re-invent the project, not only with the infringing material removed, but with a new dose of life.

    Regardless of the result, we'll still have members blaming Mojang for matters, complaining about Bukkit being down, then complaining about how long it takes for new versions (what's new), however I'd like to believe that people worth our time in this community, the ones who strive to push it forward instead of drag it down, will be willing to take the time to wait.

    [Disregard any misspellings, for I am but a simple tired Valon. Don't let this event take away your sparkle (ノ◕ヮ◕)ノ*:・゚✧]
    jorisk322 and Zarkaylia like this.
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    Please stop... just STOP talkin' such dumb things.

    Mojang killed nothing. Bukkit is not dead. It's just not available, because of legal issues, which had happend even WITHOUT the new EULA. Why? Because of regular copyright laws, which were already active before any EULA was written. Mojang owns all Minecraft-Code, the Client one and the Server one.

    Bukkit is an open-source program, that used decompiled and modifies MC-Code, owned by Mojang (and no, decompiling and slightly modifying does not make it to Bukkit-Code... it still belongs to Mojang).

    If you use GPL-Code für your Program, then that "new" program has to be also under GPL.
    But if you use non-GPL-Code for your GPL-Program, it can't be under GPL anymore!
    This has nothing to do with any EULA! So stop blaming Mojnag for things, which has nothing to do with this situation.

    Thats the problem. Wolvereness wanted Mojang to give Bukkit the Server-Code. Mojang denied that, because they don't have to. Vubui said that there is no MC-Code in Bukkit... maybe they also think that that modified code doesn't belong to mojang anymore, but defined by law he is wrong.

    Mojang bought Bukkit 2 Years ago (i thought they announced that via Twitter, as it happened. Could someone check that?), they owned the project, but not the Code and not the Licence. They just bought it, to make sure that they can support Bukkit without any problems, when the time has come.
    It's not known, what Mojang paid, it could also be, that they just paid enough to run this forum and guaranteed support for hiring Dinnerbone and EvilSeph.
    But let's stop rumoring :D

    And one more thing. It's not our godgiven right to force Mojang to whatever you want. You bought Minecraft in it's Version. All these Updates are not self-evident. That they tried to support Bukkit to keep it alive is not self-evident. That MC-Code got into Bukkit is not Mojangs fault... so that Wolvereness took Bukkit down is also not Mojangs fault.
    But Wolvereness is also not to blame. He had the right to take it down, because of Licence-issues.
    Mojang is already trying to solve this problem. That statement got wrong... but this doesn't mean that Mojang doesn't care... it doesn't mean that they want to destroy Bukkit.

    Please don't try to blame anyone for something that didn't happen! Please read... and think... and don't write anything in rage; rage disturbs the sense...

    This will eventually be my last post for this issue... too many guys, who are just readig the first post and ignoring all ths answers.
    DHLF and Zupsub like this.
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