Left bukkitdev

Discussion in 'BukkitDev Information and Feedback' started by freman, Apr 21, 2012.

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    Sad. I think more people search for bukkit plugins within the bukkit community instead of google. It's a pain going through the unuseful results for some people.

    It's a mod made for CraftBukkit, which means that it does not work without craftbukkit. This doesn't mean that it's a property of bukkit nor does it mean that the plugin should be affiliated with bukkit in any way.
    freman likes this.
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    you have to understand they have to watch their asses they cannot allow links on their site that points to what may be hurtful to users or to bukkit
    example not you of course
    i click on a mod link to support iit takes me to their site where i in return click the adfly link download the mod install it and all of a sudden my server crashes due to a plugin that cant be checked by bukkit

    bukkit is now responsible because they allowed me to get the plugin from a different source but advertised on their site
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    Please forgive me for chuckling but as it is my server crashes because of plugins hosted on bukkit - bukketperms, vault and mcdocs. one of these plugins is conflicting with the other, or bukkit - they're all hosted on bukkitdev, but good luck getting one of them to fix it.

    Look Toxic__Waste, I don't think you're necessarily a bad guy, just perhaps inflexible to side of the argument, I'm know all to well the problems with advertisements at all on download pages (just check out some of the choice advertising on sourceforge download pages), the same - I can be quite the stickler for my own damn freedom to do what I want on my hosting.

    bukkitdev and i were never going to get along in the long run - for starters there was a preference for uploading your code to their source management system, then there was hosting your files on their servers - and as a plugin dev, I want more control over my code and my files, I want to use github, and I don't want to have to update 4 sites every time I make a change to my files.

    I appreciate bukkits (not bukkitdev) goals, I appreciate their position, I'm willing to compromise, find something that's workable - but I won't accept a flat out no - especially when the rules that are written in the 'rules' page aren't the unwritten rules we're all supposed to abide by, even more so when the links are on my site not theirs.

    In the long run, I'm prepared to compromise, I'll make the adf.ly links go away for users who find their way to my license page from forums.bukkit.org (mind you, users that hit refresh will probably see them, but that's just the nature of the http protocol), but I must keep that page, because I have something to say to every single person who downloads my file the file I created, the file I put time into - I think I deserve the chance to say it - 1 paragraph isn't much to read, especially as the file takes longer to download than it takes me to read that paragraph.

    edit: Here's a plugin that recommends you visit their page for the download, and while they admit the download is adf.ly in the page, they actually disguise it in code (making it redirect from their own download before going to adf.ly, intentionally or not) - http://forums.bukkit.org/threads/tp...sureplates-buttons-and-more-1-2-3-r0-2.37056/

    edit2: To be clear, I don't think I'll be going back to bukkitdev because I'm tired of updating 4 places every time I have an update, I don't like curse, and I don't like hosting my code on third parties, after all it's my code, my responsibility.
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    but again thats what im saying they are liable for all links hosted by them they can and will decide what links are allowed nothing against you but if they let you do it they have to let all mods do it. that would cause alot of problems in the long run for them.and i understand your frustration.all i can say you want a license before they down load it include the license on the change config page.add a read me file to your downlaod with the license.set up the config.ymal with a license at the top. there are other ways to get users to read it rather then just pulling your plugins. cause you and bukkit dont see eye to eye.its still their site and their rules

    there is no need for 3 pages we all know everthing moving to bukkit dev no one updates the bukkit pages no more the all link to bdev heres what you do put the jar file and a read me file in a zip folder as the download like essentials and towny and some other plugins do with your license in it.and tell the users all updating done on bukkit dev not on bukkit no more and one more thing dont think bukkitdev is not run by bukkit.org the close relation tells me they do

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 25, 2016
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    Wolvereness Bukkit Team Member

    ITT, Guy who made an ISP and gets a lot of money but still cares about pennies from adf.ly

    /edit: It's one thing to request a closed-source style license, but considering GPL, turning around on the forums and complaining about open-source is a slap in the face to the community.
    MrBluebear3 and hatstand like this.
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    I believe he is very sure.
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    I'm advertising my plugin and providing a route to download it, in the appropriate forum - try again
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    Seems to me anyone on the planet is free to make a plugin, host it on their own site, write their own license, and do whatever the heck they want. Sell it for a million bucks under a restrictive license. Nothing wrong with that.

    Seems to me that at the same same time, Bukkit gets to control how people who use BukkitDev get to use it. If and when these things are in opposition, pick one and move on. OP wants best of both worlds. Life sucks.

    Secondly, releasing easily decompiled code under a do-not-decompile custom license is as useful as the amount of money and time you are going to spend enforcing your restrictions. You are free to make your restrictions. You are free to license a plugin only for use on Tuesdays. You are free to pursue infringers. However, expecting a community of open source hackers to be given your code in an open source community setting and expecting them to not decompile? Priceless.

    Thirdly (and this is a general point), any plugin that builds on a previous plugin may be restricted by the parent plugin's license, depending on the relevant license. When licensing/restricting your code, be sure to remove any code released under a less restrictive license.

    Fourthly, if you ever find yourself a guest in my house, you are NOT free to pee in the bath. You are free to pee, just not in the bath. My house, my rules.
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    It's a clean room implementation, when I say based on I mean "based upon the concept/idea of" not "forked from", so not a problem unless they got a patent for it :D

    lol, going to watch me to make sure? :)
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    Wrong. See this, as Bukkit is under the GPL:
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    Nope, but if I see it, or someone else does, I might ask you to stop, and if you don't stop, I might ask you to leave.
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    I don't see why developers can't have a section on their thread like,

    Show Spoiler

    Support me!

    Feel free to support me by either Donating or clicking on an external link to download my plugin!

    Thanks :)
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    Italics mine.
    dark_hunter likes this.
  16. For linking to github, etc... is bit.ly allowed? (No ads or anything malicous)?

    Well said Toxic__Waste

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 25, 2016
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    Dude... this thread is from 11 months ago! ;)
    lycano likes this.
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    I really dont understand the problem here as it seems that the only problem here is "i cant use url shortener so im leaving". Plus something along the line "i have to update multiple pages but i only want to manage one".

    Well lets get to those url shorteners first. adf.ly and bit.ly are both known for their mallicious behavior for ages. Even if your intentions are as you say FREEMAN not making money the problem here is that bukkit has to disallow this cause of reasons mentioned here many times. One of those are: They have to check outgoing links placed on dev.bukkit pages and url shorteners delays those checks. They would have to invest more time in checking those links as they are not as clearly visible as a direct link.

    Especially those ad related links do track referrer and most likely more stuff via javascript for their stats (some of them are personal stuff like) and mostly, at least I, dont want this I want to know what is behind a link. Plus in general everyone who clicks on that link would throw money at them for free everytime as they sell those informations to third party and who knows who that is. Maybe some chinese bot network that uses this to invest more time to scan the irc channel or website for personal data.

    Besides that in general the problem here is not that it is adf.ly or bit.ly, it is because those link usage increase check time which could be spend elsewhere.

    adf.ly and bit.ly are special in this case cause they allow you to earn points or even money and that is against Curse ToS.

    They may have other reasons but my personal view of this here is that all url shorteners collect data while providing you free services to shorten your url which would be useful when having limited text space available like on twitter.

    But here you can use the wikimarkup to describe the link instead of just pasting them as a full link making those usage needless.

    So i dont see the point in using them anyways here. Why not just using the descriptor markup?

    As it might seem complicated it depends on what your goal is.
    1) Do you want to inform your userbase about every single change?
    2) Do you want to update the feature table everytime you implement more stuff?
    3) Do you want to use dev.bukkit for documentation?

    Related to 1) You can focus on parts that are important and create a central page where you just post "updates and news" in chronological order so you would only have to update that page instead of managing the main page.

    Related to 2) As for 1) you can just create another page that may only list those features in a seperate list.

    Realted to 3) As i dont have seen this here very often but possible you would have to create many pages for that to create ae good index or just one that has the correct topics set.

    For all three points you can always just create a header and then direct link to your wiki or github wiki page. That way you only would have to update it once.

    Also i suggest (not only to you) to keep informations simple and crunchy (not that detailed) as most of the text is not read at all. So it does not make sense to explain everything in detail on the main page as its most likely not read anyways.

    Thanks but maybe those informations are useful for someone else.

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 25, 2016
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    No URL shorteners of any type are allowed. They have commonly been used to hide other URL shorteners such as ad.fly.
    lycano likes this.
  20. Sure - I wont bother setting one up then! :)
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