Left bukkitdev

Discussion in 'BukkitDev Information and Feedback' started by freman, Apr 21, 2012.

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    wait till someone works out how to copy your whole server and re-release it, then you might understand a license page.

    um its a game they want to copy my server go ahead its a game im here to have fun oh did i mention its a game
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    You think that little of your time and effort, that's fine for you.

    All I ask is you view /$pluginname/license and then pick the download link that suites your life style choices.
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    ok lets say your not a money grubbing dev ok we will say that for now
    then answer me this one question and give a college try plz

    why is it all the mod devs follow the bukkit guidelines but you think your above them?
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    To my understanding...

    You "clearly don't care about the money", and you are releasing the plugin is for the general public so that other people can satisfy their needs . You're trying to do good. You're trying to help other people. It's a good thing.

    However, what I don't understand is how you react to not being able to post adfly links. It seems that you sound like if you're more concerned with teaching people to "cough up some dough or learn to wait behind paying work".

    To me, it sounds like if you're just concerned about getting those pennies. Maybe I misunderstood you, but if you don't really care about it at, I don't think you would be overreacting like this (behaviour such as completely removing your plugin from bukkitdev). What you did does not matter in this case, posting adfly links or not, but what really matters is how you react to the situation, and how you responded to other people criticizing your reaction.

    Another point I would like to raise is that it's unlikely for anyone to sympathize with you, seeing how you are more concerned with getting the income rather than providing accessibility to your great plugins. This may backfire on you in the form of little donation received and little appreciation received.

    To conclude, I believe that you should calm down and follow your heart. You're releasing your plugin to the public, you're doing them a favour. You want to be generous. Giving without expecting anything in return. For me, a few simple 'thank you' was enough to keep me going, working on my plugin day and night keeping it up to date. I believe that the same can apply to you. I believe that you, like anyone else, could adopt this mentality and achieve a greater purpose, which is both beneficial for you and the community.
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    Ignoring your benign attempt at an insult. Not all devs do follow the bukkit guidelines, some have managed to get by under the rader, some will fall into line... Me, I prefer to stand up and be counted.
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    wait you just wait now this is just stupid i can download the craftbukkit .jar which is 10mbs+ on THEIR site with no ads or even choices they rely on donations AS WELL and all they ask of you is the same and you cant follow that just your ever lasting replies tells me all you care about is beating the bukkit team. this is my last post here because you will never learn... and i cant believe your acting this way over a mod there are thousands of mods thousands of servers and me and you are nothing in the scheme of things. if my server closes minecraft and bukkit still goes on if you stop your mod minecraft and bukkit still goes on.you are a dev mod you will follow the guidlines i am a server owner i will follow the guidelines evil steph admin will follow the guidelines we all follow the guidelines. but you cant farewell have a nice life and happy digging

    loool i have to hit this your funny they try and get caught and fall in line you want to stand up and be heard
    heard doing what breaking the rules
    now that my friend is funny some one breaking the rules and crying foul lool now i can leave with a smile ty

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 25, 2016
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    Sorry you do misunderstand me, I tend to be very unable to communicate with any great efficiency so believe me I take all the blame.

    Perhaps I can explain better through historical context than my current ramblings.

    It started off with me not keeping my plugins up to date with whatever non-rb was out, and perhaps even taking my sweet time updating my code and my server to the latest RB (hey I've watched them fall over before, as we all have), this spurred some rather harsh comments regarding my commitment - which I've tried to make clear is not to anyone but the players of my server.

    At this time, someone took my close source plugin and not only de-compiled it, they modified it, and re-released it as open source - admittedly they cleaned up the mess, but it was still a slap in the face, this is the only closed source anything I've ever worked on.

    At the time, I made effort to explain that I've had paid work to do, stuff that puts dinner on the table. I even resisted the urge to say "You want more timely updates, pony up some cash" - I've had one (and only one) very helpful donor and I didn't want to disrespect them as their $10 donation came right when I needed it (hey we've all had short weeks)

    I make good money with my job, and even better money with my freelancing - however the freelancing pays more for my free time and is a damn sight more polite than some of the server operators are.

    So yes, I appreciate money - No, I don't expect it, nore do I demand it - but I do expect appreciation and patience.

    The license page came because someone, as good as their intentions were, offended me gravely. The adf.ly links, well they came because one of this community suggested it.

    I've made the offer to remove the adf.ly links if I can show a 1 paragraph license, I've made the offer to re-order and re-word the links on my own personal site to better serve the community, but I will not be dictated to, only negotiated with.

    This trully isn't about money, this is about respect, rights, and appreciation - and if I can't get the first two by doing it the traditional way - adf.ly proves that at least 60+% (it was closer to 70 but I like to leave a wide margin of error) appreciate my efforts... for the record $4 doesn't buy much, not in Australia, chances are I'd probably just give it to someone else who needs it more.

    edit: But that $4 buys me the satisfaction of knowing that 60+% of downloaders want to contribute even if they're unwilling or unable to part with their own cash, and I appreciate that - I don't contribute to half the projects I love as much as I wish I could, but I'm first in line at humble bundle (cept that Notch guy keeps droping $k's_
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    Hi, I believe that this is not the right place for you to troll.

    Let me explain.

    "that's if your completely stupid and don't know about adblock"
    - Being stupid or not has nothing to do with not know what adblock is.

    "just feel like being the biggest retard in the world and clicking malicious ads"
    - Either you want to prove that you're a smart-ass who knows how to avoid ads, or you're plain stupid and tries to insult everyone else who you think are more stupid than yourself.

    "MinecraftForums allows them. The devs work hard to make these plugins, they deserve the few pennies."
    - This is not MinecraftForums. This is Bukkit, an open community run by people who care about the community.

    "Pardon, I have Microsoft Security Essentials. I misspoke."
    - So you do have some form of protection... so I guess you could not live up to your own standards? "It's called being intelligent with how you work the internet."

    "I meant that I do not run regular scans unless [...]"
    "I do scan once per week, but [...]"
    - oh look who's contradicting himself in the SAME POST.

    "Avg is bogged as hell and detects false-positives like it is its job. Security Essentials has as big a database of viruses as AVG, but doesn't detect false-positives."
    - Although I do personally like MSE better than AVG, I do not believe that any AV does a better job than any other AV if the user is as dumb as you.

    Also, what's your problem, turning a topic about adfly links into a debate about which anti-visus is best...

    And to end this off... I'm sorry if this criticizes you, lowers your self-esteem, or make you feel bad. It's my daily dose of stress relief :D You just seemed to be the perfect troll I could target. Please behave yourself.
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    For the record, you're not welcome to my plugins - I'm not crying foul, I'm making a statement, I stated that I'm leaving dev.bukkit and I have, it's people like you who continue the argument.

    Statments of fact - for 1 month.
    * over 9000 hits from bukkit forums
    * only around 400 hits from dev.bukkit
    * 60+% downloaded via adfly when given the choice, not the requirement, to do so.
    * 0% of downloaders got less than they paid for.
    * 100% of downloaders viewed the license page, which was why I originally moved my plugins from dev.bukkit
    * It was a server operator just like you that originally suggested I add ad.fly links so that people who are too tight, or too poor can contribute for nothing.
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    i can see that and all thanks to bukkit all your stats you just wrote is that to bukkit allowing you to host your plugins with them with out them you have no stats
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    And no-one but me uses the plugins I wrote for me, no loss no gain, see how simple that is.
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    got to love it i dont use your plug ins lol and who really cares your only hurting the people who do remember that you say your not in it for the money if this was true drop adfly but you cant cause you do want a check and now we are to tight or poor to donate nice
    I love it when someone starts to lose a debate the resort to name calling
    like i said your nothing im nothing but im a happy nothing looool
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    I don't normally go into this sort of detail, but I'm a charitable guy, just for your reference.

    Right now before telling you what I spend my earnings on, I'm going to remind you this is my choice, I don't expect or even hope anyone else is as giving with their time and money.

    This pay period alone I've given away money to help a friend get started at college, and will probably freely give more to help her. I've given away money to a friend who's grand mother has just come out of hospital to pay for her hospital bills, and will probably give more to help them. I've given away to ChildFund to sponsor children in less fortunate circumstances.

    I'm sure there's all sorts of psych students that want to pick my mind apart for a thesis but these are my choices, these examples of my use of money - I'm not poor, I'm not wealthy either, but as long as there's food on my table and my mortgage is paid, I don't much care.

    I don't do it for the tax (the first two aren't even declared), I don't do it for the good feeling... I do it because it's right.

    When given the chance to click on adf.ly links for plugins and modules (minecraftforums is rife with them) I always do, I don't feel required to do so, but I can so I do.

    When people demand more of my time than they deserve, time I could be using elsewhere, then I get pissed off - and this is the result.

    All I'm doing with my license page, and my adf.ly links is giving you the opportunity to show me some respect and gratitude, you don't have to do this, you can use the add free link, you can even chose to use a totally different plugin - that's your decision, I'm not taking choices away from you.

    I'm going to bed now, I have an income to earn in the morning.

    Clearly there are people who are to tight (chose to spend their money elsewhere on better more meaningful things) or too poor (maybe they're just managing to feed themselves) and yet still want to show their appreciation, otherwise so many people wouldn't click the adf.ly link.

    I make no efforts to conceal or decisive, everyone who has clicked that link has decided to. a choice of their own doing.

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 25, 2016
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    it is my morning and i thought this was a good bye thread so why dont you say good bye and stop posting how you were so wronged omg they yelled at me and told me to remove things that i was breaking the rules with.. you broke them baxter removed them
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    Because I've left bukkit dev, not bukkit.
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    simple isnt it
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    Ok, I seem to have understood better the situation a little better.

    Keeping plugins up to date is a big job, and I have experience with it. I've been criticized many times for performance issues with my plugin, errors, crashes, lots of user-related errors.
    It's a pain to deal with raging users, but it's not their fault. It's human nature to blame it on someone else. It's seems natural for most people to 'blame the dev' for not keeping it up to date, not making it friendly enough to be used, not fixing the bugs. Deep inside, you know that you are doing a favour to them every time you do an update, or fix a bug, or even just go on the forum and explain to them what went wrong.

    I believe that the bukkit community is good opportunity to learn about the world we live in, learn about the sort of people we will deal in our everyday life, and practice our ability to handle delicate situations. At the same time, it's a great place to send your 'work' to, and get people to test them and give you the results for free, which you can then use to improve your 'work', learning much in the process.

    About the decompiled code issue, I do believe that it is not very respectful to copy other people's code, improve on it, and take credit for it. However, there must be some good ways to handle the situation, such as reporting to a superior in the community, or even better, take their free improvements and integrate it into your own code (it's like having someone else working for you for free). You just need to make it better!

    Last thing, about donations, I believe that if you are to post plugins on bukkit, there should not be any attempt to even discuss the issues with it. For one, it just seems meaningless to ask for such a small amount of money provided with the great amount of time you took to do the work. I have came to the conclusion that with all the donation money I received, it ended up with something around a few cents per hour of work. That is very little compared to what people could make in real life. If you really are short on finance and have real-life issues to deal with, perhaps you should spend less time on your plugins knowing that you are not getting anything in return in terms of financial aid.

    I'd suggest you allowing another dev to manage your plugin while you are gone or busy (or co-authoring). This way, the plugin can continue to live on, while you recover financially.

    Or maybe you are not really that short on money. Maybe it's like an extra 'bonus' that you crave for. In that case, I have to admit that despite all the craving and yearning to get it, one should not insist too much on it.

    Finally, I would like to say that what we should get in return is directly proportional to the quality of the work we do, and that we should focus on making our plugins better. Thus, if we focus on make our plugins better, donations will come naturally.
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    The Bukkit Community Staff reserves the right to modify these and any other guidelines found throughout the site and forums at any time and without notification and an Administrator's word is final.

    are you sure

    5. No selling of products or services, unless approved by a member of the administration.

    by using adfly your making money same as selling

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 25, 2016
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    I've run an ISP before (designed most of the network from the ground up, built all of it's systems), even worked it's helpdesk, I unfortunately am very versed on the ability of people to push their problems on to others ;)

    Call me arrogant because it's true (sadly, this isn't a badge of honour but try as I might I can't fix it), but I'm employed because I'm exceptionally good at what I do, no matter how much of a pain I am to work with.

    If it helps, I do appreciate the good intentions and desires of the person who did this, I don't blame him so much, but it hurts none the less, it feels like a distinct slap in the face - this probably has more to do with my issues in life than the poor chap that thought he was doing bukkit a favor, but it still happened and it shouldn't have.

    I ask for nothing, I offer up a donation link, even jokingly state it'll be used for booze and caffeine, caffeine maybe but I'm in no need of booze, the adf.ly link gives people a chance to provide something for nothing which people seem quite happy to do.

    Besides, even if I remove the adf.ly link now it seems that since the original transgression new, undocumented, rules have been invented about direct downloads, so I wouldn't be able to link to a license page even if it had no adf.ly link on it, and I'm sorry but the decompiled code issue clearly shows some people, no matter how good their intentions, rush into things without thinking.

    Everyone is welcome to the source code of BedHome and Bedrock, it's on github, that's made visible before even the adf.ly link is made visible - when you view the pages belonging to these plugins on the site they offer the github links - without looking I'm sure I reference the gpl in every file I can so it's quite clear those plugins are free for all - all without seeing an adf.ly link

    Heh, the only bonus is the pat on the back, "I had the choice to download for nothing, or download and say thanks with 0.000172 of a cent, I chose to give you that piece of a cent" - that's worth something, as I've said, I'm more than likely to give that $4 to someone else.

    The one donation I've gotten for a plugin was from back when I refused to support permissions because there were no standard permissions - now days demand that you support permissions so they can incentivise their servers.

    I'm not telling anyone how they should run their server, at least the way I run mine gives people the choice to do it completely out of appreciation rather than the desire to have something they don't have.

    If bukkit came to me and told me it was ok to link to the plugin page, or even the license page on my site in exchange for re-wording, redesigning or even removing the adf.ly link I'd consider it. But at the same time i have to wonder if this isn't a case of protectiveness gone mad (You know I live in Australia, you've seen the kind of BS we have to put up with from Stephen Conroy - to a degree this adf.ly hysteria is more of the same)

    That's fine... Actually modify the rules as listed.

    I think you're taking a very very very liberal view of the terms, selling would be me saying you can't have my plugin UNLESS you give me $10, or UNLESS you click on my adf.ly link.

    Edit: I really do need to stop feeding this troll and go to bed, I've checked his plugin list he's not interested in my plugins, if he was he could have them for free and he knows it, he just wants to dig his claws into anyone who he can - perhaps he's one of the people bukkit mods are rightly protecting against accidently clicking on the wrong adf.ly link.

    I appreciate discussion with the likes of lishid as he seems willing to consider the other side of the argument if not concede to it - you however appear to be keeping me awake for no good reason.

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 25, 2016
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    You sir are not making any attempt to help a community contributor in distress. Shame on you.
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    ad fly hysteria your the only one complaining about it and not even bukkit makes me look at a license to download their product what should i with you its their site not yours

    feeding this troll your good bye thread you never just said good bye and liberall loool omg im as conservitive as they come im all for making money but not at the expense of breaking the rules or going against staff

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 25, 2016
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    I think what you should do for now is post your plugins back. It is a good asset of the bukkit plugins.

    What I would suggest you to do is link to a page on your own website, clearly stating something in the words of "Please help me by downloading from the link below" like you usually did, and post the adfly links on the landing page of your website.

    so a person would click on the link to your website, then see the adfly link on your website (make it clear that the should use that if they want to support you), then use that.

    Everyone is happy.
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    I'm going against no-one, I've said my goodbye to bukkit dev in this thread yet you're hear making discussion.

    I can only post a link to my license page, I can not post a direct link to the file
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    see i think even that would be unexceptable the whole point of having dev.bukkit is for the safety of users
    its a control that bukkit can monitor for bad plugins
    now say if you had a website say like for support and have google ad sence and some other types of ads on the site that would be fine but i do think for safety reasons all mods should be hosted and linked by bukkit or curse
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    What do you mean? Does your website not allow posting files?
    Worst case scenario, you can link back to /files of bukkitdev.

    If you didn't understand what I meant...
    Post a link on bukkitdev page that goes to your website, then post the adfly link on your website.
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    Feel free not to download pluigins not hosted on dev.bukkit.

    Correct, I've specifically engineered my site and my hosting to provide a link that is valid for only 1 hour - If it is agreeable I will hide the link for adf.ly from bukkit referrers but I must keep that page, and will not chance the way the site is hosted.

    It's a fair compromise, my license, my ability to remind people of their rights, my rights means more to me than download rates - but then, no-one from bukkit seems to be paying attention or caring at this point.

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 25, 2016
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    1. You're not here to judge if a plugin is bad.
    2. It's for donations, and I did say it clearly that it's supposed to link to the other website, outside of bukkit.

    I just think that making it accessible to everyone is more important for me.

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 25, 2016
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    no im not here to judge plug ins thats bukkits job but if they dont want mods downloaded for ad fly through there site you think a link to a link that takes users away from dev.bukkit would be exceptable its still a mod made for craftbukkit that still starts on their site
    if they allow links put on their site that could potionally hurt users i would expect them to remove that page
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    *shrugs* I'cw provided accessibilityfor everyone, bukkit have removed the accessibility to everyone but those smart enough to use google.

    I've always been willing to reword and re-organise my page, but less willing to remove the adf.ly links, my offer is to check the referrer header and hide the link based on the referrer - so that those who come via other means than bukkit find the page.

    I do not however see a time when I will go back to dev.bukkit.

    My links are provided only on my site, and the option is given to users not to use adf.ly or not. Honestly if I were you and most other users I'd be insulted that bukkit have decided you're not smart enough to make the decision that's right for you.

    Still I'm not telling bukkit how to run their sites, I said goodbye to dev.bukkit. I'd hope just because they're bigger than me, that they'd not assume to tell me how to run mine.

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 25, 2016
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