Is Bukkit dying ?

Discussion in 'Bukkit Discussion' started by kaiohfury, Mar 10, 2014.

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    First of all, I would like to thank all the devs for the great job they did since months (years!).
    But now, I have to ask this simple question, and I'm sorry for that, but is the team still determinated to progress on this difficult task ?

    I think that we have always been patient for good reasons. Bukkit was a good alternative to official system, but now, I have to say that there's a big lag between the official releases and the bukkit team.

    1.7.3 ; 1.7.4 ; 1.7.5 while the team is trying to make a good beta of 1.7.2..

    I'm not here to be the idiot who wants to hurry good guys who are not even paid to help minecraft community. I just wanted to ask you this question, because I know that, on big projects like this, the devs are not always able to be totally honest and tell them "unable".

    Sorry for my bad English which is not my language.
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    Due to the protocol compatibility between the newer versions of Minecraft (1.7.4, 1.7.5) and the 1.7.2 server, we have focused on improving our existing codebase rather than push for the new, mostly client side updates.

    Not dying at all.
    Novustorious and lDucks like this.
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    OK, good news, you seem be as determinated as you've always been. Let's move forward
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    As a server owner and plugin developer, I'm actually thankful for this.
    If bukkit would shift development immediately every time minecraft updates with minor features,
    there would many times not be a stable build available to work with.
    I prefer quality over being up-to-date by all means.
    Take Feed the Beast. Because of the vast amount of new items, almost no FTB mod pack is up-to-date.
    Instead, modmakers use "mature" versions to prevent unnecessary hassle.
    Some of the popular ones are still running 1.4.7.
    Nevertheless people enjoy it.
    Same goes for Bukkit in my opinion.

    Yeah, players always ask "When will you finally update to MC x.y.z ???". But we only do this, if at least a reliable beta-build is available. It really saves alot of trouble in the long run.
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    My main complaint is that they need to make Recommended Builds more often. For example, 1.7.2-R0.3 has been out for a month(!) and is very stable. It's of a higher quality than most production software. It should have been made the Recommended Build two weeks ago.

    The current Recommended Build is 4 1/2 months old!
    justcool393 likes this.
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    I agree. We do want to push recommended builds more often than we have been, but 1.7.x has been a bit of a challenge. As well, with Mojang speeding up their development, we constantly play catch-up and have less time between versions now than we have before. Its the nature of having to deal with a constant moving target we have to hit with every new release by Mojang. It seems as if we get really close to an RB these days and then hit a wall with a new Minecraft release, putting us back to square one. Beta builds address that though, we do our very best to make sure our Beta builds are stable (and I'm glad you're finding 1.7.2-R0.3 stable). RB's though take that a step further where we attempt to address missing API and visible gaps in our builds (such as missing commands - which is why we designed the new commands.yml to help bridge those gaps).

    Its our burden to bare, and not at all Mojang's fault. I am really glad they push new updates out frequently. My point here was only to address our challenges with how our development works. On top of keeping up with Minecraft updates (and making sure we didn't break something along the way :oops:) we also need to address new potential API. Its time consuming, grueling work and sometimes there just aren't enough hours in the day.
    justcool393 and jthort like this.
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    I find it interesting that Bukkit is actually the de-facto server type to use, even though it is not the official server. Mojang continues forward, we fall behind, and the community, which is run mainly on Bukkit, stays behind with us. Most owners use Bukkit, and so don't always have the latest version. The majority of the community likes the Bukkit-run servers, and so they stay behind. Interesting, huh?
    justcool393 likes this.
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    I don't know if I agree with that. I lost players due to the delayed update to 1.7.2, and they never came back.
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    Minecraft is dieing. I've been playing it since 2010 and I've seen it going up and down.
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    Exactly, it goes up and down. Trust me, MC is doing fine.
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    I call that my players' fault and not my players' fault. I feel like most of the players out there tend to lean toward focusing on the huge servers first, the ones that run the unsupported versions of Bukkit, because there are so many people that play on it. So resulting in this, they update.

    That to me isn't a community.
    Hopefully this doesn't sound terrible. I could care less if my players quit, I would just want something stable to work off of, something that is reliable. That is what Bukkit provides us. Thumbs up to them.
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    Bukkit has thousands of plugins thousands of server owners thousands of members and great staff believe me they are the opposite of dying.
    And as for minecraft over 75 million euros made just in licensing fees?
    They aren't dying.
    In my opinion the future for minecraft tied in with bukkit looks bright.
    Also minecraft isn't dying anytime soon people are always coming up with new ways to do things or making new builds or even uploading new plugins to bukkit.
    Tbh if anything is truly dying its spigot, the community on there is consistent with a bunch of 10 year olds imo, I know they are trying to make it a more mature community but I wouldn't create a account on their even if they paid me for fear of being scammed or just straight up flamed.
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    I'm the one who initiated this question and 2 months later, it's hard to see that we're still stuck at 1.6.4.
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    We're not? There's plenty of very stable 1.7.9 builds out.
    HelpfulBeast likes this.
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    I think he meant a Recommended Build.
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    Well, then it looks like somebody needs to learn to use dev builds :)
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    The real question is why does it take 7+ months to release a Recommended Build? At this point, they might as well just get rid of the Recommended Build designation entirely.
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    Bobcat00 Recommended Build is more of a "stable build", and it really seems more like terminology to keep first-time server owners off of the unstable development builds.

    Recommended builds require a very large amount of testing, as it should allow full usage of the API as well as the full function of the vanilla server without any errors whatsoever. It takes a long time to fully work out all the bugs in a program, hence it remains in development builds and beta builds. Minecraft follows a rolling release cycle, though, so it makes sense that much of the server software mods remain in beta.
    JaguarJo and Necrodoom like this.
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    I think that the problem is that you run behind a train trying to catch it, and when you are about to get it, you see that there's a new one which is more important and it's a non-stop run without results.

    I Wonder if minecraft official staff don't watch your dev status and decide to release new versions to block your tasks and make you become crazy.

    And for the last posts : yes i know using dev builds, but you can't blame someone because he doesnt want to use them... if you call that "recommanded build", there's a reason...
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    Minecraft is very easy to downgrade/upgrade now days, protocol hacks are pretty much useless anyway.
    AdamQpzm likes this.
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    But the vast majority of users are completely clueless and don't even know that feature exists.
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    Well, it's a lot easier to explain "click this, this, and this" than it is to explain "download this obscure JAR file, go into your minecraft data..." ;)
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    I personally think that Minecraft would die before Bukkit would.
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    Removed discussion about unofficial builds. They do not belong on these forums.

    Yes there is a reason. It is called that because way back in the project's history, we had no promoted build at all and just came up with the name "Recommended" to signify a stable build for developers to base their work off, due to the rapid development of still very new API and server. While it was, and still is, a lot of work to put out a Recommended build, 3 years ago we did not have the rapidly changing Minecraft codebase we do now. We had more time to react when a new Minecraft version was released, which meant more time to add API and test the server.

    Eventually we came up with a better way for server owners to get access to new Minecraft releases without them having to use Dev builds, or waiting on a RB. Of course, we already had the name Recommended and internally were calling them "Beta" builds, so we just stuck with that. Around December of 2012, we slightly altered the meaning behind the builds. We basically made Beta the new Recommended, allowing us to have a bit more leeway around including new API, which is what the RB is meant to address now. Developers still have their stable builds to work off of (Recommended Builds) and server admins can still get onto a new Minecraft version with a reasonable assurance they have a stable build to use (Beta). While its clear some server admins still want to wait for an RB, I find the reason is only the naming of the builds, without any consideration to what those builds mean. We should probably have them named something completely different than Beta or Recommended, but that requires updating quite a few of our sites and resources, not to mention educating our community. Its just simply not high priority.
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    The thing is, unless it's a tight knit community that doesn't mind waiting (younger people usually have shorter attention spans xD) for a Beta build, a dev build is pretty much necessary (1.7.9 seems to be the exception to this) as even with the easy version switching, it's still a few more clicks. RB's always seem to be a major version of Minecraft behind. The problems with dev builds though is that on rare occasions they break (remember 1.4.5 anyone?) but it is almost necessary to use them.

    I like the idea of the recommended build initiative that EvilSeph was doing, and I hope that will come to fruition soon.
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    This a large majority of the visible Minecraft community, unfortunately.
    justcool393 likes this.
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    Hi, I opened this thread 6 months ago, I updated it 4 months ago, and today, I can see that, finally I was not wrong. We will never thank you enough for the (free) job you did, but to be honest, I'm sorry to see that a lot of time has been wasted while we were thinking that there would be a big dev boost one day. There was nothing or almoste nothing since 6 months, and I invite you to read this thread which will be a good summary...

    Anyway, we cant blame you after the great job you did since months/years, but the ending was not really a good shot.
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