Bukkit: It's time to say ...

Discussion in 'Community News and Announcements' started by EvilSeph, Aug 21, 2014.

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    When we first set out to add our personal touch to what hMod offered the community 3 and a half years ago, none of us foresaw the success the Bukkit project would end up having. From a rocky start that wasn't of our own making (hMod suddenly disappeared without warning while we were just starting up the project, leaving us ill-prepared to fill the void left over), we stepped up to the challenge and managed to put together a usable, respectable alternative to other server mods. We even went so far as to improve on the Minecraft server itself. I can proudly and confidently say that Bukkit was and is a success: not only were we able to provide a platform for hundreds of thousands of Developers to build upon and make use of, we were also frequently providing our Server Admins with peace of mind knowing that the latest exploits and security holes were addressed in a timely and responsible manner.

    From the get go we were plagued with issues and obstacles we needed to overcome, one of which we were sadly unable to tackle despite our best efforts: the legal barrier of licensing and permission. When starting the Bukkit project and even getting involved with hMod before that, we all knew that our work - no matter how well-intentioned - fell into a dangerous legal grey area. As such, my first priority at the start was to do things right: contact Mojang to try and get permission to continue on with the project and discuss our licensing. Unfortunately, while we did get into contact with Mojang and managed to have a chat with Notch and Jeb themselves (who have said that they don't like our methods but understand that there isn't any alternative and are thus fine with what we were and are doing), we never did get an official meeting with their business side to get legally sound permission to continue as we were and were unable to sort out our licensing issues. To this day we find our project in limbo with a half-applied license some could argue is invalid and little power on our end to do anything about the situation.

    With that realisation came a nagging unease at the back of our minds that at any point in time Mojang could decide they didn't like what we were doing and shut us down - something we were all expecting for the first year or so of the project's life but, to our surprise, never occurred. Naturally, Mojang's conscious decision to not take action on our project gave us the confidence to continue on (something which I'm sure Server Admins out there can relate to given the recent, sudden and unexpected EULA enforcement) and we even later got further confirmation from Notch himself that we were and are allowed to keep proceeding as we always had.

    Fast forward to more recent times and Mojang have made the abrupt and sudden decision to start enforcing their EULA in an effort to quell the outlook of Minecraft being pay to win. While I can completely understand where they are coming from and support their mission to shut down pay to win servers, it's difficult to be supportive of their abrupt turn-around with enforcing rules they consciously decided not to enforce since the start of Minecraft. On top of this, there are also clauses - which it would be irresponsible of us not to be aware of - within the now suddenly enforced EULA that directly affect the Bukkit project.

    Most notably: "The one major rule is that you must not distribute anything we've made". While the EULA does go on to try and clarify what is meant by "anything we've made", I feel that it only serves to confuse the situation even more so. At the end of the day, it seems that Mojang can determine what is a "mod, plugin or hack" of their game on the fly and their recent abrupt turn-around on enforcing the EULA has us understandably worried. Couple this with the fact that it isn't legally viable or acceptable to enforce the EULA piecemeal and our future is clear.

    At this point in time, I think it's safe to say that it's no longer worth it for us to put up a fight when it comes to keeping Bukkit and modding alive. With large and significant changes coming in Minecraft 1.8 that we'll be hard pressed to provide support for and the lack of support from Mojang with updates since acquiring our original core team (Mojang used to provide us with mappings to speed up the update process), there is little motivation for us to continue limping on across various aspects of the project. From a project management standpoint, it's become increasingly difficult to find willing and able individuals to help out the project on a purely voluntary basis due to people losing interest in Minecraft or people looking for something more. Simply put, this was ultimately the final nail in the coffin.

    Nonetheless, no one can deny that we've had a fantastic run as a project. This is due in no small part to the support we received and continue to receive from both the Minecraft community and the many companies and organisations that have graciously chosen to support us with a ridiculous amount of resources, infrastructure and backing - far more than we could have ever asked for. No amount of words can adequately express the gratitude we have for all our sponsors who have supported us through our journey and ensured Bukkit had the infrastructure required to be the vast success it is today. To list all of what these sponsors have done for us would be a post equal in length to this one, so we will unfortunately need to keep it brief. We want to give huge shout-outs and thanks to: eXophase.com for getting us off our feet and hosting us at the start; Multiplay and Curse for swooping in and providing us with (emergency) hosting we continue to use to this day including dl.bukkit.org and our BukkitDev service; as well as AllGamer for providing us test servers whenever we needed a server to certify update and promoted builds or attempt to reproduce a bug report.

    Last, but definitely not least, we'd like to thank the many staff, both past and present, that have volunteered countless hours over the years. I am at a loss for words to express just how much these people have meant to the project and to myself. The core team who have constantly worked hard to update to every new Minecraft version, while adding in new API and improving the server itself. The BukkitDev staff who spend countless hours checking over the fantastic plugins our community creates. Our moderation staff keeping our forums orderly and safe for all people seeking out a great community to be a part of. Additionally, the many unsung people who have helped in various ways despite having no official title, simply because there was work to do. Finally, my administrators, who have tirelessly helped me keep the project functioning as a whole. I would especially like to thank TnT and mbaxter for sticking through it with me to the end, always ready to discuss an issue and provide me with advice.

    It's been a fantastic 3 and a half years of providing what we believe to be the absolute best modding platform for the wonderful Minecraft community to use. We really enjoyed seeing the amazing feats our many Developers and Server Admins achieved with the product we provided and continue to be amazed every day at the ingenuity our community shows. Thanks for everyone's continued support! It has and will continue to mean the world to us. Together we were able to provide a Minecraft server used by hundreds of thousands of servers out there (with our last Recommended Build having over 2.6 million downloads!), which is certainly something to be proud of and a great note to end on.

    This is the end, it's time to say goodbye. It's been an amazing run and we achieved much more than anyone thought was possible, even ultimately culminating in Mojang hiring our original core team. Unfortunately, all good things come to an end and the Bukkit project has run its course, leaving me to make one final - incredibly difficult - decision to shut down the project I’ve poured 3 and a half years of my life into which means so much to me. We're no longer able to confidently distribute our modified versions of the Minecraft server and it is no longer smart for us to continue with our update process. Sadly, this means we will NOT be updating Bukkit nor CraftBukkit for Minecraft 1.8 and, since Minecraft 1.7.10 introduced the EULA enforcement, we will be placing the project under a code freeze for the foreseeable future. Furthermore, due to obvious legal reasons we will not be helping anyone else complete any updates nor sharing our methods despite any desire to the contrary. Although the project itself will essentially be no more, we'll continue to support our community, the forums, IRC and BukkitDev as long as we are able and as long as our partners support us with the resources and infrastructure to do so.

    As for us? Well, who knows? Maybe we'll find another game, program or project to be passionate about and we'll be back with a vengeance? Only time will tell, but I hope that we'll see you around the next passion-project of ours when it happens :)

    [lukegb]There's more to come on this. Please read this for more information about where we stand.[/lukegb]
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    its moyang, did you expect a detailed desc?
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    Keep posting messages like these, then wonder why are they behaving like this. These kind of messages might cause annoyance for them, as it would for most people.
    I believe we'll get a better overview of situation soon enough.
  4. What I don't get is how this post came about anyways. Surely the team were consulted and at some point should've realised, wait we're owned by Mojang. Even if that didn't come out, they should've reached out to Mojang at some point.

    I'm very confused about all this, but in the end I should be glad that this is not the end of Bukkit. I think killing off Bukkit would basically kill off Minecraft.
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    I believe they have had some sort of argument? They don't seem to be working out.
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    I think it's to settle down the community by giving us more clear facts, rather than fragments of information like we've been getting the past few hours.
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    To be fair, the acquisition did happen two years ago and Bukkit has been generally left alone (despite what the original post wanted users to believe). It's entirely possible that Seph, in deciding "I don't want to do this anymore" assumed a little too far and forgot who and what else was actually involved.

    Dinnerbone hasn't been an active Bukkit member in a while, so he wasn't directly involved in any sort of meetings, and I think it's obvious that he was not asked about this, let alone informed of it ahead of time, since Mojang replies didn't start until this announcement was posted.
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    Calm down guys, this isn't the end of Bukkit. EvilSeph has abandoned, yes, and he said Bukkit won't be updated to future minecraft versions, including 1.8. But I believe that was a precipitated comment. Most of us, Bukkit users, didn't know that Mojang was the owner of Bukkit, me included, and that caught us completely off guard. All the information today posted is very shocking, and because of that, we HAVE to take it easy and calm down, be patient, and cooperate as we can.

    I play every day Minecraft since earlier 2011, and I've seen how progressively the servers and communities degenerated into a pay-to-win game full of inmature kinds. This is like Youtube, in its begining, it was awesome, but it started to become a degenerated and COMPLETELY monetize community that only looks for money, money, money and more money. Mojang saw this evolution of the servers, and took action on this matter. I think the EULA isn't the best solution, because it generalizes a lot, and affects those little communities and servers that have a donation system that offers some little advantages just to encourage people to contribute to the server maintenance, like mine. But it is a solution. It's practically imposible to make difference objectively between a server whose purpose is to earn money, and servers that offers advantages to players that donate just to encourage the donations.

    It's true that Mojang started to act like a company that only looks for money without caring the minecraft community, but they know multiplayer is what makes Minecraft an incredible game. And to be honest, multiplayer is hold thanks to Bukkit in its majority. I like how Dinnerbone acts and work, unlike Jeb, and since Dinnerbone leads the minecraft development, I fully support Mojang on its most decisions.

    Fortunately, because this worrying happening, Dinnerbone and Mojang Team is going to continue developing Bukkit to update it to the next versions. I think it's an emergency decision just to show people that Bukkit isn't going to disappear. While Dinnerbone develops Bukkit 1.8, they will look into a solution for this problem. It's pathetic and ridiculous that because one person abandons, the project have to disappear.

    I just hope that things get getter, but we have to give them time, to Bukkit and to Mojang.
    This is my opinion. Sorry for the grammar, I'm spanish, not native.

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    This is incredibly sad. :(
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    Really looking forward to the 1.8 Bukkit, with Dinnerbone being able to work on both sides of the update (original and obs-code) it should be a very interesting result.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's setting a new precedent in decompilation, someone working both sides of the coin, and both versions being actively used in production environments.

    I love new stuff :3
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    Excuse me for not reading the past 6 pages worth of comments, but will the "original" Bukkit team be staying?

    Edit: Possibly yes
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    I just finished reading the entire thread to figure out what's happening, so here's what's going on:

    Mojang has owned Bukkit for two years (https://twitter.com/jeb_/status/502380018216206336)
    (Follow up: https://twitter.com/jeb_/status/502380571600121856)
    (Another source: https://twitter.com/_grum/status/502381523241144320)

    Dinnerbone is continuing the project (https://twitter.com/Dinnerbone/status/502381093731831808)

    What I'm unsure of here is the "how". According to https://twitter.com/EvilSeph/status/502384952944885760, the Bukkit Team was hired by Mojang and the condition to their employment was that the project ownership be transferred to Mojang.
    Or maybe just Dinnerbone was hired (old news)

    md_5 has been tweeting some things related to this all: https://twitter.com/md__5

    My theory is that Bukkit will be implemented into Minecraft Realms. Maybe Mojang will start getting rid of the other hosts, now that they've taken the software.

    Long story short: OP was incorrect. Firstly, according to Jeb, Bukkit isn't EvilSeph's (Warren) project to discontinue. Now, Bukkit was taken over by Mojang. Who will be developing it is unclear to me. Based off of Jeb's Tweet (https://twitter.com/jeb_/status/502380571600121856) EvilSeph (Warren) isn't going to be working on the project. But EvilSeph also implied in his tweet (https://twitter.com/EvilSeph/status/502384952944885760) that the Bukkit development team was hired by Mojang. But besides all of this:

    ** Bukkit is not being discontinued. Dinnerbone (who works for Mojang) will update the project to 1.8. Mojang now owns Bukkit. **

    I have the facts and sources in this post. That's the main point though.
    iKeirNez likes this.
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    There is no way EvilSeph didn't know that Mojang had ownership of Bukkit, he admits as much that on his twitter account. A lot of people seem to forget that EvilSeph worked for Mojang until October of last year when he quit without reason. My guess is that there is a seperate narative here, but who can say for sure.

    Also Ryan of Mojang makes a fair point. Mojang didn't buy Bukkit off of EvilSeph, Dinnerbone, Grum nor Tahg, they bought the name and code from Curse.

    Ryan's full statement is this:
    "Mojang "took over" two and a half years ago when EvilSeph, Dinnerbone, Grum and Tahg were hired, in the form of buying Bukkit (the name and the code) from Curse for a token amount. People seem to be forgetting that Mojang left Bukkit well alone to do its own thing until Warren attempting to discontinue it and pin the blame on us forced our hand."

    A lot of people may have forgoten the fact that Curse took ownership of Bukkit because it happend a rather long time ago, but if you check out Dinnerbone's blog from a year ago when he decided to tell the story of how Bukkit started up, he mentions the situation with curse:

    "At some point here, Curse had offered to support Bukkit and that couldn't have come at a better time. Our servers were buckling under load, and we couldn't afford to do anything about it on our own. I acquired a job at Curse (in which my role was literally, "keep doing what you do and don't mind us". They were good people!) and they also helped kick off an old dream that we had when we started Bukkit; an easy to search plugin repository! They also offered to fly us all to Blizzcon, of which I was planning to attend anyway, so that we can all meet up and say hi. And so for the first time ever, the Bukkit team was united together in person! A month or two after that, Curse also flew us out to the first Minecon and we did a panel there. That was both incredibly scary but also incredibly awesome."


    So it would explain why nobody knew about Mojang buying Bukkit because it was a bussiness deal between Mojang and Curse, not Mojang and the Bukkit Dev's who had already sold it to Curse some time further in the past.

    Honestly the whole situation is a bit fascinating, but there shouldn't be to much room for concern. Dinnerbone/Mojang will update Bukkit, as they recognize its importance in the community, till such a point where other offer to take up the reins or Mojang produces an API. If Mojang is, at that point, still solely responsible for updating Bukkit by the point that the API is released, I believe they will close the Bukkit project at that point. As a reminder, the founder of Bukkit, Dinnerbone, states that Bukkit is a poor bandage for the lack of an API and that they are designing a Plugin API as opposed to a Modding API. My feelings is that a lot of the server functionality that people rely on Bukkit for will be integrated into the Plugin API and that switching Bukkit Plugins into "Minecraft Plugins", for lack of a better word, may not be too huge of an issue. You have to remember, Dinnerbone is incredibly familure with both Bukkit and Minecraft's code, if there is anyone I trust to keep in mind what Bukkit Plugins would need to transfer over to an "official" system, it would be the current dev team.

    Anyway, that is just my opinions on things. :)
    AnorZaken and Rydian like this.
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    I almost don't want Mojang to pickup development of bukkit, I think it was about time for bukkit to go but it wont be the same without EvilSeph.
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    Nice theory but no.

    These Realms conspiracies need to stop too, guys.

    EDIT: Just a note, I'm only pointing out what are incorrect assumptions in the summary, thus picking out only two lines.
    Enzer likes this.
  17. I had this thought earlier, but forgot to post it. This could be interesting!
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    I smelly a lot of changes comming
    Modding API still on ice; new EULA enforcement; last update took MCP&Forge a whole while- i'm curious about this one; looks like Bukkit is having internal problems now;...
    "This is going to be quiet a ride"

    ps:Some of you guys really didn't know that Mojang acquired Bukkit ? Not much with reading licenses and news about the software you use, eh ?..
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    Well...I guess it's time to say goodbye. Thank you for all you've done.
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    Their assumptions that Mojang will do one thing is just as much of an assumption as your own predictions. In reality, you have no idea what Mojang is going to do. Personally, I won't be surprised if Mojang takes bukkit as a catalyst to enforce their EULA or even start selling Bukkit. At this point, these guys could do anything and I won't be surprised, I've already lost faith.

    More people need to see beyond the BS. This could easily be a setup for more $$$ to Mojang.

    This isn't the Mojang I remember.
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    To be fair the Plugin API is on ice only because you can't build a functional API on bad code. Lot of things need to be addressed between simple cleanup of the code as well as making many functions no longer hard coded and actual open for manipulation via the API. The Dev team has a massive job on their hands with that alone and it is a bit unfortunate since this all should have been stuff that was worked out in Beta (Chucklefish is going through similar growing pains with Starbound, Omni of their Dev team has been working on a lot of stuff that, while immediately breaking the majority of the mods, is necessary in the long run). Anyone could take a cursory glance at what they've been doing since 1.5 and tell that they have just been plowing through all the systems that have to be fixed up.

    That said, it doesn't excuse the fact that Mojang shouldn't have made deadline statements they knew they couldn't fulfill multiple times.

    MCP and Forge updating had more to do with the massive internal rewrites that 1.7 introduced (expect a similar wait for 1.8 as Searge is warning it is going to be just as bad if not worse), but again this is reflection of the fact the Dev team is trying to whip the game into shape. Also in MCP's case, I do believe that Searge had taken some time off for himself and then had to deal with his being hired by Mojang, which took some time way from him being able to attend to MCP.

    I think Dinnerbone going back to do the 1.8 update for Bukkit might be a good thing in the long run, we will most likely see a faster update and since Dinnerbone is knowledgeable on the actual changes 1.8 brings, there may be less issues, but time will tell.

    Things will probably take a long time to update in the modding community, however that was a given and pretty easy to see from even cursory looking into what the Devs have been reporting on the update. :p
    iKeirNez and Rydian like this.
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    Thanks for all the Work!
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    I am no longer understanding anything.
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    Do you really think that the creator of Bukkit is going to have it abused like that? As a reminder Mojang has owned bukkit for some two and a half years, they could have abused Bukkit in the way you describe during that time, but didn't.

    I don't understand where the hostility towards Mojang is coming from, if Mojang seriously didn't care about the community they wouldn't have brought up the fact that EvilSeph didn't have the right to close the project up and then go out of their way to make sure it is updated to 1.8. Bukkit is important to the multiplayer community, and the Mojang Devs know that, hence why they are stepping in.

    The EULA has almost nothing to do about this situation outside the fact that EvilSeph used that as the reason for him shutting things down (despite the fact that the EULA doesn't effect Bukkit), even Ryan of Mojang has called EvilSeph out on him using the EULA hot topic as an excuse.
    AnorZaken, LDX and Rydian like this.
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    ... I linked to Mojang stating that the official API will not be bukkit. Right there in that post you quoted.

    You're listening to crap. The EULA change is not killing Bukkit.

    Anybody who says it is is wrong. Including Seph. Seph had incorrect assumptions about the situation, which is the entire reason the first post was edited and there's so much discussion in this thread.

    EDIT: Grammar changes for better sense.
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    Dang it...just when I thought there was an excuse to move on.
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    I can't see a future for Bukkit, now...
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    Why not? The original author of Bukkit is stepping forward to update it to 1.8 himself and Jeb representing the Minecraft Devs has said that Bukkit will not be shutting down (at least anytime soon). Sounds to me like there is a future for Bukkit and if 1.9 takes over 200 days to produce like 1.8 did, Bukkit will be around for a long time yet. :confused:
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    Welp, Its been a good run :) But unfortunately 90% of the mc population has just been killed and without a server api to run on noone will be playing minecraft much anymore so now mojang should realize that by doing this minecraft will come to a complete halt and i highly doubt ill be playing it anymore if bukkit wont continue bc ive been coding and using bukkit for so long and its hard to say goodbye so until mojang puts bukkit back goodbye mc and i hope to see bukkit back some other time maybe on a different game. No more coding for me.. My only hope is that spigot or some other thing continues this or maybe this is a dream.. or maybe a cruel joke... never the less Goodbye bukkit <3 I'll miss you forever and I'm going to keep the last version of your server forever!!!
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    Thanks everybody for making it a great run, great things are in store... :)
    kps1796 and LDX like this.
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    Check the edit and previous posts.
    N00BHUN73R, LDX and inventorman101 like this.
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