Discussion in 'Bukkit Discussion' started by TheMaa, Mar 1, 2012.

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    MAYBE days to a stable development build. Weeks, maybe even more than a month, until an RB + plugin updates.
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    I remember that my last prediction was correct and I stand by it for this update too.

    2 weeks for RB.
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    Before, when I replaced the current minecraft.jar in my bin to an older jar, it would downgrade. I just tried that. It doesn't work anymore, at least not for this update. This leads me to think that they've changed some things and that it will take more work to downgrade, or that you need to replace more files than just the minecraft.jar in order to downgrade back. Unfortunately I didn't save the entire directory of 1.1, just the jar. If you guy's haven't upgraded yet, MAKE A COPY OF YOUR ENTIRE DIRECTORY FOR MINECRAFT AND NOT JUST THE JAR FILE.
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    Alright, fair bet! I say more than a month :) What are we gambling for? Loser makes his avatar into Barbie?
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    1 day to stable dev, 3 weeks to recommended. I'll take that bet.


    I had a typo in my jar file...so it turns out it actually works just fine...

    I'm gonna stop talking now.

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 24, 2016
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    lol both 2001 and 2002:

    "There were no changes since the previous build."

    What the heck are they doing?
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    I'm sure there were changes, they probably just didn't list them

    I have a little bit of information on some plugins. I don't use very many, but I know which ones work and which ones are broken from my console when starting up using dev build #2001.

    Alerter, Essentials, EssentialsChat, HawkEye, LWC, Multiverse Core and Portals 2.2, WorldEdit.

    EssentialsProtect, Giant Trees, LagMeter, MonsterApocalypse, XrayInformer.

    I can confirm this with build #2001.
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    Just being a smart ass. I'll contribute to helping out with this list after the dust has settled a bit. For now, I'm just looking for/offering moral support :p
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    I found HawkEye updated, but i don't remember where.. It was on devbukkit some place.
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    Oh no Nathan C posted...he is usually right. Well I would say at next Friday the 9 or even the 12.
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    Sorry I do not bet on things that I'd regret. And you avatar already looks like a barbie.
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    How do I revert back to Minecraft 1.1? I just started using bukkit to run a server for my friends and I made the mistake of updating to Minecraft 1.2. How do I go back to Minecraft 1.1?
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    You can try to force update. When the login screen pops up click ''Options'' then force update.
    Or: C:\Users\Usernamehere\AppData\Roaming and right click .minecraft, restore previous version.
    Works if you have a backup available.
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    Use MCNostalgia
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    I fail to see how they could've got anything done sooner. Sure, it would've been possible to synchronize the Minecraft and Bukkit releases, but it would've meant one or both coming out later than they will now.

    The Bukkit guys only got hired a few days ago. I think you really are asking too much.

    This point has been addressed before. Source code isn't magic dust that makes all the problems go away. Bukkit still has to be built atop the obfuscated class files that are present in the official Minecraft release. Those obfuscated class files are randomized so they don't resemble the original source. That's the whole point of obfuscation!

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 24, 2016
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    How is it hard to NOT doing something. E.G., again, consider this hypothetical situation:


    BUKKIT: Bukkit World Headquarters! May I help you?
    JEB: It's Jeb from Mojang. I want to talk to you guys about a simple plan. I'm planning to release Minecraft V 1.2, and we should use our big-boy words to make this plan.
    BUKKIT: Oh, OK. Can you give us the source so we can match the version? Or, can you delay the release a week or two and let us preview the new version at least to do our deobfuscation, etc.?
    JEB: Sure, no problem, that sounds like it would make a lot of sense! Let me know when you're close to an internally tested RB, or at least a funtional dev build, and we'll both release our new versions on the same day.
    BUKKIT: Awesome! Now there will be no confusion on behalf of the end users, and server admins will be happy that their work isn't thrown into turmoil! How simple!
    JEB: Sounds like a good plan to me! Thanks for having this simple phone conversation with me so millions of Minecraft players aren't thrown into chaos!
    BUKKIT: No problem!


    What would you clock that at -- a 30 second phone conversation?

    Well, you probably have a point there -- it's going over my head as far as technical knowledge goes. Still just seems kind of silly.

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 24, 2016
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    Just tested #2004. Still not working correctly. Plugins are still broken. Land generation is extremely choppy. Still have lighting/shading bugs.
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    Yeah, no argument from me there! The most frustrating thing about obfuscation is it doesn't really stop people from getting access to the code. It's a speed bump, not a real useful security mechanism. I can't understand why they even bother for Minecraft.
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    By putting that hurdle there it limits the quantity of people using their code. In addition it shows that they're making an effort to protect their intellectual property.
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    "Shows" who? They're not an IPO -- they don't have a board of directors to answer to. No one would care, OTHER than the Bukkit peeps, if the code WASN'T obfuscated. Only a very small handful of people who even play the game know how to deobfuscate the compiled code, and it's not like having it obfuscated stopped the many Minecraft imposters that have been developed from doing their thing.
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    So your saying World Edit, World Guard, No Cheat, and LWC and Essentials work with a dev build, but isnt the latest posted version a dev build too? I'm confused.
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    You don't get it; you have to make an effort to protect your intellectual property if you want a legal leg to stand upon if someone decides to make an exact clone of your game and sell it. It's not more complicated than that.
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    I guess from that perspective I can see your point. Still, there are easy ways to ensure proof of original ownership, which is all that I thought was necessary for a copyright case. I.E. burning the original source to disk and certified mailing it to yourself.
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    You're thinking of trademark violations, but the obfuscation issue would be covered by copyright. Copyright holds even if the source code is freely available. In fact, the very idea of an open source copyright license is predicated on the fact that copyright holds even when source is available.
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    Your last little fake "phone conversation" made me laugh. Thats not how it works. Not when you are dealing with a business and money. With all the other mods and developers why would Mojang just work with one.

    This way just makes more sense...bukkit is popular for server admins the modding api is really to help server admins not pull their hair out. Plus think about it...they could charge for this feature. I don't know I'm just thinking.

    Edit: I'm going from a simple sort of non technical side. A way to not get into legal troubles.
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    Nope, dev builds are hosted elsewhere. The latest posted versions of NC and LWC work with 1.2, but not WE, WG or Essentials. For those 3 you need to look in their respective dev repositories... :p
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    This is precisely my point, however. Mojang has HIRED the Bukkit guys. So, yes, for all other non-employee modders/developers, I wouldn't even imagine in my wildest dreams Jeb/Mojang wasting their time. In the case of Bukkit, however, they're now "on the clock" as far I understand. The choice to hire the team in the first place seems to indicate that Mojang has a vested interest in the work the Bukkit folks have been doing in relation to their own work.

    I mean, I know I oversimplified things to the point of absurdity, but being realistic I'd still imagine that the Bukkit team and the Mojang team are now in close contact. From what I understand, Bukkit's previous work was *technically* illegal, although Mojang had little to gain by perusing them legally (and from what we anecdotally know about Notch, he's, well, a little lazy and probably just didn't give enough of a crap to do anything about it; he probably also feared player backlash). Seems to me they made the smarter move -- if you can't beat 'em, hire 'em!

    My sense of what the future is going to be from reading their posts is that they're going to make an entirely new API, separate from Bukkit, and that Bukkit itself will continue on in its own form (although somehow I doubt that -- I wouldn't think it would be in Mojang's interest to have staff developers working simultaneously on two separate APIs that could easily come in conflict with each other, depending on how exactly they envision it all going down).

    I would also think Notch would make forfeiting the rights to Bukkit a part of the staff hirings (that's what I would do, if I were in his place, anyways). Although I'm speculating there on how exactly that part of their deal works, if that IS the case then of course Notch would want the simple mock phone conversation I wrote up to occur. As to how he intends to monetize the deal over all, I really don't know, but if he DOES have a plan to benefit his company somehow in all this, then I wouldn't think mis-timed release schedules would be in his or his company's best interest.

    Afterall, all such a mis-timing does is make crazy ranters like me go on forums and start writing up posts until we get what we want -- the kind of publicity no company REALLY, ultimately wants, even if it's inconsequential in the short-run. Not to mention such miscommunication among staff members causes a genuine feeling of consternation among users/server operators who very well may, eventually, just get tired enough of it to stop going through these kinds of things. It's not that there will be a mass exodus, but gamers may just start forgetting about the game when newer, shinier and less annoying games come to market. Obviously, we're all here waiting with bated breath now, but how many more times do YOU intend to have to dismantle your whole server, tear everything apart, destroy maps, deal with angry users, etc.? I think the number for me is relatively small.
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    A couple problems with that. First, the code is already out there under the GPL, and nobody can revoke it now that it's been released. Even if Mojang made the Bukkit devs sign an agreement that they'd stop working on Bukkit, someone else could take the code and continue on. Second, GPL code it can't be integrated with non-GPL code unless it's relicensed. The Bukkit devs only have the right to relicense the code they wrote. Any other contributed code would need to be relicensed by the original author. Doesn't sound like anyone involved wants to do that anyway.
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